Hall of Fame Finalists Rejects

Chicopee John

He wasn't just some sneaky good WR, he was flat out amazing. The best route-runner you'll ever see (after Jerry Rice). And his numbers surpassed both of those HOFers. And don't get me started on Terrell Owens not getting in, regardless of his irate and diva-like nature. The man is arguably the 3rd best wide receiver ever.

Just a guess but, as I recall, wasn't he involved in some 'off field activity' that took a lot of luster off him, in general?

Maybe some voters are taking that into account, not unlike with some baseball writers and PEDs.

Dunno.

The Gipper

@secondwave said:

While I believe, and ultimately agree with you, making Harrison wait his turn for an inferior career in Tim Brown is an even bigger travesty. This has become more political than merit.

And Harrison was better than Reed and Cris Carter, as far as production goes.

Harrison: 14,580 YDS, 1102 REC, 13. 2 AVG, 128 TDs in 13 seasons.

Carter: 13, 899 YDS, 1101 REC, 12.6 AVG, 130 TDs in 16 seasons.

Reed: 13, 198 YDS, 951 REC, 13.9 AVG, 87 TDs in 16 seasons.

OK, fair arguments.....but note, Carter and Reed each had to wait 8-9 years before being selected. Tim Brown too. Harrison will probably not have to wait as long.

He wasn't just some sneaky good WR, he was flat out amazing. The best route-runner you'll ever see (after Jerry Rice). And his numbers surpassed both of those HOFers. And don't get me started on Terrell Owens not getting in, regardless of his irate and diva-like nature. The man is arguably the 3rd best wide receiver ever.

Owens should and likely will get in....but he is not eligible until next year fyi. He may have to suffer a waiting period just like Reed/Carter/Harrison/Brown. That receiver position often has a log jam going for it.

The Gipper

@chicopee-john said:

He wasn't just some sneaky good WR, he was flat out amazing. The best route-runner you'll ever see (after Jerry Rice). And his numbers surpassed both of those HOFers. And don't get me started on Terrell Owens not getting in, regardless of his irate and diva-like nature. The man is arguably the 3rd best wide receiver ever.

Who are #1 and 2? Rice OK....but #2?

Also....I think Paul Warfield may have been a better route runner.

Just a guess but, as I recall, wasn't he involved in some 'off field activity' that took a lot of luster off him, in general?

Maybe some voters are taking that into account, not unlike with some baseball writers and PEDs.

Dunno.

No, I think his whole spat with Donovan McNabb ....plus the fact that he was seen as a cancer on the team.....is the only negative issue with him. But many people may take his side on the McNabb thing. TO is more likely to get in the HOF than McNabb.

But I am not aware of any "off field" issues. No drugs, wife beating, child abuse, screwing prostitutes. etc. etc.....is there? Unless I just forgot?

secondwave

Moss is far and away the 2nd best receiver. And to think, if he had half the work ethic of Jerry Rice, he would have obliterated every WR record.

Pity.

The Gipper

@secondwave said:

Moss is far and away the 2nd best receiver. And to think, if he had half the work ethic of Jerry Rice, he would have obliterated every WR record.

Pity.

He had more innate talent than Rice....than anybody ever maybe. Not so the work effort.

nickers

I cant believe Kevin Green made the list over Clay Mathews Sr.... that's a crime..

The Gipper

@nickers said:
I cant believe Kevin Green made the list over Clay Mathews Sr.... that's a crime..

Good point. Comparative stats:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GreeKe00.htm

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MattCl00.htm

It is clearly all about the sacks: Greene had 160 in his career, Clay 70

(but I have no doubt that Clay was the better all around LB)

Greene's sack total is third all time behin Bruce Smith and Reggie White. That is why he gets the attention.

And I guess there is something to be said about that.

jrb12711

@chicopee-john said:

He wasn't just some sneaky good WR, he was flat out amazing. The best route-runner you'll ever see (after Jerry Rice). And his numbers surpassed both of those HOFers. And don't get me started on Terrell Owens not getting in, regardless of his irate and diva-like nature. The man is arguably the 3rd best wide receiver ever.

Just a guess but, as I recall, wasn't he involved in some 'off field activity' that took a lot of luster off him, in general?

Maybe some voters are taking that into account, not unlike with some baseball writers and PEDs.

Dunno.

Yep, I was just going to chime in and say this. This article is a little dated but I recall hearing a lot that behind the scenes the guy was a huge dick and did a lot of questionably legal things:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/114971-marvin-harrison-the-nfls-quiet-bad-boy-wide-receiver

Of course that didn't stop Ray Lewis so who knows.

BaconHound

Starvin Marvin and Warner should be no-brainers

The Gipper

@baconhound said:
Starvin Marvin and Warner should be no-brainers

Harrison passed over twice now. Warner once.

BaconHound

@the-gipper said:
Harrison passed over twice now. Warner once.

Yeah I really don't put much stock in All Star appearances or Hall of Fame inductions as the defining moment of players' careers

The Gipper

@baconhound said:
Yeah I really don't put much stock in All Star appearances or Hall of Fame inductions as the defining moment of players' careers

But the players do. Those 2 things....plus obviously championships define a player's career.

Unlike, say, the Oscars, which both George C. Scott and Marlon Brando turned down, you have never seen a player say "No thanks, don't bother putting me in the Hall of Fame"

Maybe actors and some musicians think its cool to turn down HOF designation (Sex Pistols).....athletes do not.

BaconHound

@the-gipper said:

But the players do. Those 2 things....plus obviously championships define a player's career.

Unlike, say, the Oscars, which both George C. Scott and Marlon Brando turned down, you have never seen a player say "No thanks, don't bother putting me in the Hall of Fame"

Maybe actors and some musicians think its cool to turn down HOF designation (Sex Pistols).....athletes do not.

Players like to be invited to sit with the cool kids, I don't disagree. As a fan there are players who don't deserve the accolades but get them and guys who don't them that should. When you have sportswriters and fans voting it never turns out well.

SkippinTurtles

Warren Moon was a play-off choker and a wife-beater. He's in. Kurt Warner in his prime was as good as anyone and has a ring. Great guy too. He's not in.

The Gipper

@skippinturtles said:
Warren Moon was a play-off choker and a wife-beater. He's in. Kurt Warner in his prime was as good as anyone and has a ring. Great guy too. He's not in.

Moon had to wait a while before being selected. Warner will probably get in quicker than Moon had to wait.

Are you saying Moon is really no better than like Vinny Testaverde or Drew Bledsoe or Kerry Collins? Guys that had long productive careers yet really didn't excel in the post season?

Perhaps....but I will give you these stats:

Moon is #7 in all time passing yards with 49,325, But, remember....because of his race really he wasn't invited to play in the NFL until after he had spent 5 years in Canada. In Canada he had 21,228 yards passing in his 5 years.

His total pro career yards would be 70,553....putting him #2 behind Favre if those were NFL yards.

Also.....he did WIN 3 CFL Grey Cup Championships. So he didn't choke up there. (and I think that the PFHOF voters took a lot of his CFL experience into consideration....without which he may very well have just been Testaverde or Bledsoe)