Which Qb Goes Where?
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I think it's interesting that Todd McShay has Lynch rated higher than Goff. I tend to like McShay better than the other pundits, but I'm not sure I agree with him here. Obviously he's the expert and I haven't "broken down film" or anything, but I don't necessarily see it. Perhaps I could see Lynch as possibly having the higher ceiling, but I see him taking much longer to develop than Goff. Lynch has the goods, don't get me wrong, but his size and speed won't be all that impressive in the NFL. Everybody is fast, and everybody is big. Maybe not 6'7, LOL...but still.
I like what I hear about Goff being a "film room junkie", and a coach's dream (heard this from a few radio shows, can't verify with link).
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I think it's interesting that Todd McShay has Lynch rated higher than Goff. I tend to like McShay better than the other pundits, but I'm not sure I agree with him here. Obviously he's the expert and I haven't "broken down film" or anything, but I don't necessarily see it. Perhaps I could see Lynch as possibly having the higher ceiling, but I see him taking much longer to develop than Goff. Lynch has the goods, don't get me wrong, but his size and speed won't be all that impressive in the NFL. Everybody is fast, and everybody is big. Maybe not 6'7, LOL...but still.
I like what I hear about Goff being a "film room junkie", and a coach's dream (heard this from a few radio shows, can't verify with link).
I think it's interesting that Todd McShay has Lynch rated higher than Goff. I tend to like McShay better than the other pundits, but I'm not sure I agree with him here. Obviously he's the expert and I haven't "broken down film" or anything, but I don't necessarily see it. Perhaps I could see Lynch as possibly having the higher ceiling, but I see him taking much longer to develop than Goff. Lynch has the goods, don't get me wrong, but his size and speed won't be all that impressive in the NFL. Everybody is fast, and everybody is big. Maybe not 6'7, LOL...but still.
I like what I hear about Goff being a "film room junkie", and a coach's dream (heard this from a few radio shows, can't verify with link).
It's still early really. the final rankings will likely change. They see Lynch was a rawer candidate with some mechanical issues, but huge size, elusiveness, etc.
I think when the senior bowl, combine, and pro days are all said and done by March/April we'll end up with #1 Goff, #2/#3 Wentz/Lynch.
I think Goff's combine/pro day gives him the chance to solidify his spot as the consensus #1, while Wentz stands to benefit the most from all the scouting events - could be the difference between him going top 15 and going 2nd round or later. Only because Wentz is more of an unknown at this point.
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Completely agree. It's WAY early, and things always change so much. I see Wentz as a potential candidate to absolutely skyrocket. Some team will fall in love with him.
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Let me ask a different question about Wentz- what's the word on his wrist injury? I'm reading around of course but I'm curious if anyone has done more digging on it.
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Let me ask a different question about Wentz- what's the word on his wrist injury? I'm reading around of course but I'm curious if anyone has done more digging on it.
Let me ask a different question about Wentz- what's the word on his wrist injury? I'm reading around of course but I'm curious if anyone has done more digging on it.
Fractured his throwing wrist, had surgery in October. Missed the rest of the season until a couple weeks ago played the FCS championship game against Jacksonville State.
Played like trash against Jacksonville State. 1 TD, 2 interceptions, 55% completion. Though he did have a couple of rushing touchdowns... (One interception was an incredible play by the DB, but shows his deep accuracy needs some consistency)
Personally I don't understand the hype from what I've seen so far, but we'll see. I see him staring down guys, I don't really see him throwing guys open (or throwing with anticipation)
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Let me ask a different question about Wentz- what's the word on his wrist injury? I'm reading around of course but I'm curious if anyone has done more digging on it.
Fractured his throwing wrist, had surgery in October. Missed the rest of the season until a couple weeks ago played the FCS championship game against Jacksonville State.
Played like trash against Jacksonville State. 1 TD, 2 interceptions, 55% completion. Though he did have a couple of rushing touchdowns... (One interception was an incredible play by the DB, but shows his deep accuracy needs some consistency)
Personally I don't understand the hype from what I've seen so far, but we'll see. I see him staring down guys, I don't really see him throwing guys open (or throwing with anticipation)
Fractured his throwing wrist, had surgery in October. Missed the rest of the season until a couple weeks ago played the FCS championship game against Jacksonville State.
Played like trash against Jacksonville State. 1 TD, 2 interceptions, 55% completion. Though he did have a couple of rushing touchdowns... (One interception was an incredible play by the DB, but shows his deep accuracy needs some consistency)
Personally I don't understand the hype from what I've seen so far, but we'll see. I see him staring down guys, I don't really see him throwing guys open (or throwing with anticipation)
I'm going to chalk this up to prospect blindness, because I'd hate to think you really think those things about Wentz. You seem like you know what you're talking about with Goff, and Wentz doesn't display those qualities in the least.
It happened to me two years ago with Bortles - I liked everything about him and failed to see anything good in any other prospects. I believed Bortles to be head and shoulders above the rest, which didn't allow me to correctly evaluate the rest of the crop.
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Fractured his throwing wrist, had surgery in October. Missed the rest of the season until a couple weeks ago played the FCS championship game against Jacksonville State.
Played like trash against Jacksonville State. 1 TD, 2 interceptions, 55% completion. Though he did have a couple of rushing touchdowns... (One interception was an incredible play by the DB, but shows his deep accuracy needs some consistency)
Personally I don't understand the hype from what I've seen so far, but we'll see. I see him staring down guys, I don't really see him throwing guys open (or throwing with anticipation)
I'm going to chalk this up to prospect blindness, because I'd hate to think you really think those things about Wentz. You seem like you know what you're talking about with Goff, and Wentz doesn't display those qualities in the least.
It happened to me two years ago with Bortles - I liked everything about him and failed to see anything good in any other prospects. I believed Bortles to be head and shoulders above the rest, which didn't allow me to correctly evaluate the rest of the crop.
I'm going to chalk this up to prospect blindness, because I'd hate to think you really think those things about Wentz. You seem like you know what you're talking about with Goff, and Wentz doesn't display those qualities in the least.
It happened to me two years ago with Bortles - I liked everything about him and failed to see anything good in any other prospects. I believed Bortles to be head and shoulders above the rest, which didn't allow me to correctly evaluate the rest of the crop.
I've seen more Goff than Wentz, but I didn't really say much about him I think is wrong.
I like his size, frame, arm strength, composure, accuracy in general is good - sometimes inconsistent. The 2 picks against Jacksonville state were caused by being slightly behind and one was more of a great play by the DB. He had a deep ball that was thrown behind and inside - his receivers had to turn, stop, adjust a lot of the time rather than catching in stride. Though this was the first game in 2 months post-injury, I've seen pretty much the entire jacksonville state game and only portions of the other games.
I've seen a poor feel for timing routes. He's pretty good under pressure which seems to be pretty often, though - he knows when to tuck it down and run and does it pretty well.
He's thrown it to a lot of super tight windows, but other times he's behind, underthrown, overthrown.
I guess trash against jacksonville state isn't very fair to say. He played fine, but it wasn't an incredibly impressive day through the air for him though. Certainly not the best of his (short) season.
The upside is there, he has a big frame and the physical attributes you want. He has the arm, accuracy in general, release, seems to have good vision although he still locks onto guys, lapses on footwork sometimes, etc.
I'll be interested in seeing him in the senior bowl, but at this point I don't see him worth a top 5 pick. He may land at 15-22...Probably 2nd round if he does poor at the pre-draft events.
As far as Bortles, I guess he's pretty similar to Bortles. I liked Bortles but I didn't like him at #4 overall at the time, of course he ended up #3 overall.
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See that is funny.....no where does he say that he will reach for a QB that isn't talented enough. He has given a dozen interviews, and the one I heard on WKNR.....he said essentially "yes, if a QB is good enough to take at #2 we will take him....but if not we won't.
Here is the exact quote:
If there’s a QB at pick No. 2 or pick No. 32 that we feel is the best option, the best fit for our team, we need to go get him,” Jackson said Sunday. “I’m sitting here today because John Harbaugh gave me an opportunity to draft and develop Joe Flacco.”
California’s Jared Goff, Memphis’ Paxton Lynch, Michigan State’s Connor Cook and North Dakota State’s Carson Wentz are among the top quarterback options. Jackson said he’ll spend a lot of time evaluating the quarterback class but won’t force the issue at the top of the draft if the player isn’t worthy.
“If he’s good enough, I am not against it,” Jackson said on WKNR 850-AM. “But if he’s not, then obviously we don’t want to take one just to take one
Right, and you're basing your evaluation of "not talented enough" on fictional things that Bill Polian may or may not have said, while trying to back it up with nothing.
Fact is that you were wrong about your "evaluation" of these guys, that they aren't considered second round talent, and that we will more than likely be taking one in the draft. These are first round QB's who have higher grades than any of the last two draft class QB's.
This is yet another instance of Gipper shoving his foot in his mouth, then trying to argue his way out of it with nothing.
Right, and you're basing your evaluation of "not talented enough" on fictional things that Bill Polian may or may not have said, while trying to back it up with nothing.
Fact is that you were wrong about your "evaluation" of these guys, that they aren't considered second round talent, and that we will more than likely be taking one in the draft. These are first round QB's who have higher grades than any of the last two draft class QB's.
This is yet another instance of Gipper shoving his foot in his mouth, then trying to argue his way out of it with nothing.
I am not wrong about what people have said about these guys. What has happened is that due to the position, these guys are all being reevaluated upward. But just because they have been reevaluated does not mean that their talent has increased over what people thought they were early on in this process.
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Found link to a partial distribution chart for Lynch 2015 in this BleacherReport article:
Tour I think someone said it before- but looking at that chart- Lynch is captain dump off short. Lots of screens & swing passes?
Tour I think someone said it before- but looking at that chart- Lynch is captain dump off short. Lots of screens & swing passes?
Lots of screens... both traditional and bubble. All part of the horizontal offense. But he throws them well... generally taking something off of his short throws making them very catchable.
The screens are followed by lots of quick slants. Enough that I started wondering when a team would take away the slants with a backside LB and sure enough, in the next game, a UH LB picked him doing just that.
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Right, and you're basing your evaluation of "not talented enough" on fictional things that Bill Polian may or may not have said, while trying to back it up with nothing.
Fact is that you were wrong about your "evaluation" of these guys, that they aren't considered second round talent, and that we will more than likely be taking one in the draft. These are first round QB's who have higher grades than any of the last two draft class QB's.
This is yet another instance of Gipper shoving his foot in his mouth, then trying to argue his way out of it with nothing.
I am not wrong about what people have said about these guys. What has happened is that due to the position, these guys are all being reevaluated upward. But just because they have been reevaluated does not mean that their talent has increased over what people thought they were early on in this process.
I am not wrong about what people have said about these guys. What has happened is that due to the position, these guys are all being reevaluated upward. But just because they have been reevaluated does not mean that their talent has increased over what people thought they were early on in this process.
The thing is, you still haven't provided proof of these supposed things people have said - so that makes them untrue until otherwise proven.
I heard Bill Belichick say that Carson Wentz and Jared Goff will be better than Tom Brady and John Elway.
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I am not wrong about what people have said about these guys. What has happened is that due to the position, these guys are all being reevaluated upward. But just because they have been reevaluated does not mean that their talent has increased over what people thought they were early on in this process.
The thing is, you still haven't provided proof of these supposed things people have said - so that makes them untrue until otherwise proven.
I heard Bill Belichick say that Carson Wentz and Jared Goff will be better than Tom Brady and John Elway.
The thing is, you still haven't provided proof of these supposed things people have said - so that makes them untrue until otherwise proven.
I heard Bill Belichick say that Carson Wentz and Jared Goff will be better than Tom Brady and John Elway.
You don't know what is proof and what isn't. Testimonial evidence IS proof. Take it from a Magistrate.
And I gave testimony as to what these people said. And considering the credibility of the witness....you can take it to the bank.
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The thing is, you still haven't provided proof of these supposed things people have said - so that makes them untrue until otherwise proven.
I heard Bill Belichick say that Carson Wentz and Jared Goff will be better than Tom Brady and John Elway.
You don't know what is proof and what isn't. Testimonial evidence IS proof. Take it from a Magistrate.
And I gave testimony as to what these people said. And considering the credibility of the witness....you can take it to the bank.
You don't know what is proof and what isn't. Testimonial evidence IS proof. Take it from a Magistrate.
And I gave testimony as to what these people said. And considering the credibility of the witness....you can take it to the bank.
Okay, so you're wrong. Got it.
Moving on to actual talk again.
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You don't know what is proof and what isn't. Testimonial evidence IS proof. Take it from a Magistrate.
And I gave testimony as to what these people said. And considering the credibility of the witness....you can take it to the bank.
Okay, so you're wrong. Got it.
Moving on to actual talk again.
Okay, so you're wrong. Got it.
Moving on to actual talk again.
No, everything I said is factual.
Fact: Bill Polian said these guys are second rounders at best in him estimation.
Fact: These guys were not given high ratings when the college season began.
Fact: Sure, many people have re-evaluated them and ranked them much higher now.
Fact: nobody....including not one of you out there....including me, has a clue if a Paxton Lynch is the next Peyton Manning or the next Dan McGwire.
Fact: not on of you out there knows if Jared Goff is the next Aaron Rodgers or the next Joey Harrington.
Fact: my skepticism about these guys and how they are suddenly being uberhyped as being worth of our #2 overall pick gives me pause....as it should all of you. (OK, this may be more in the form of an opinion....but you get my drift.)
If picking QBs were a science, then all of the scouts our there would be on a par with Einstein and Hawking.....but it is not a science.
It is an art......and you don't know from one time to another if you are getting the Mona Lisa or Elvis on Velvet.
(besides....your "actual talk" is quite frankly....boring, so you need me to spice things up a bit.)
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I think it's interesting that Todd McShay has Lynch rated higher than Goff. I tend to like McShay better than the other pundits, but I'm not sure I agree with him here. Obviously he's the expert and I haven't "broken down film" or anything, but I don't necessarily see it. Perhaps I could see Lynch as possibly having the higher ceiling, but I see him taking much longer to develop than Goff. Lynch has the goods, don't get me wrong, but his size and speed won't be all that impressive in the NFL. Everybody is fast, and everybody is big. Maybe not 6'7, LOL...but still.
I like what I hear about Goff being a "film room junkie", and a coach's dream (heard this from a few radio shows, can't verify with link).
I think it's interesting that Todd McShay has Lynch rated higher than Goff. I tend to like McShay better than the other pundits, but I'm not sure I agree with him here. Obviously he's the expert and I haven't "broken down film" or anything, but I don't necessarily see it. Perhaps I could see Lynch as possibly having the higher ceiling, but I see him taking much longer to develop than Goff. Lynch has the goods, don't get me wrong, but his size and speed won't be all that impressive in the NFL. Everybody is fast, and everybody is big. Maybe not 6'7, LOL...but still.
I like what I hear about Goff being a "film room junkie", and a coach's dream (heard this from a few radio shows, can't verify with link).
this is actually a concern about prospects like Goff as well. Because EVERY qbs arm talent and speed is degraded(relatively) a lot when making the transition from college to the nfl. So when you have a guy who just has 'above average' arm talent in college, take that down 2-3 pegs and what do you have.....then you have people who say the mannings, bradys, and brees' of the world had only good(and not special) arm talent in college. This is not true in the least(or for how it translates to nfl)....
1) Brees' arm strength, for whatever reason, has been said to increase greatly after he got to the nfl. Why? Hell if I know. But whatever happened he found a way to put more pace on the ball than when he was at purdue. Everyone has said this. I dont think we can count on this.
2) There was never anything average about brady's arm talent. Especially his deep ball early on in his pro career. Yes he was a 6th round pick, but his arm talent was absurd. Look at him in his first year starting in the nfl and some of these throws....early in his career he threw the most rope-like deep ball I've ever seen.
3) coming out of tennessee peyton had exceptional arm talent. Was it quite on the level of Leaf? No...but it was still in the top 5% of college qbs coming out. Very very few college qbs could put more pace on 25 yard throws with only a quick hitch than peyton.
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I think it's interesting that Todd McShay has Lynch rated higher than Goff. I tend to like McShay better than the other pundits, but I'm not sure I agree with him here. Obviously he's the expert and I haven't "broken down film" or anything, but I don't necessarily see it. Perhaps I could see Lynch as possibly having the higher ceiling, but I see him taking much longer to develop than Goff. Lynch has the goods, don't get me wrong, but his size and speed won't be all that impressive in the NFL. Everybody is fast, and everybody is big. Maybe not 6'7, LOL...but still.
I like what I hear about Goff being a "film room junkie", and a coach's dream (heard this from a few radio shows, can't verify with link).
I think it's interesting that Todd McShay has Lynch rated higher than Goff.
Don't agree with it, but I can understand it if you don't give added weight to the mental aspects of the game. To me that's the biggest hurdle there is and so far Goff is the only one I see who has already cleared that bar.
Fractured his throwing wrist, had surgery in October. Missed the rest of the season until a couple weeks ago played the FCS championship game against Jacksonville State.
Played like trash against Jacksonville State. 1 TD, 2 interceptions, 55% completion. Though he did have a couple of rushing touchdowns... (One interception was an incredible play by the DB, but shows his deep accuracy needs some consistency)
Personally I don't understand the hype from what I've seen so far, but we'll see. I see him staring down guys, I don't really see him throwing guys open (or throwing with anticipation)
Just spent my first session with Wentz watched his early stuff vs. Montana and NIU. After getting over my usual running-QB-gag-reflex I saw some good, but more areas in need of development than either Goff or Lynch.
First need... touch... doesn't have the ability to drop balls into windows with a man yards underneath... ends up throwing too flat. Otherwise the arm talent is there. Looked to me like the throwing mechanics are there. TOR in both directions is good.
Second need... vision... threw a bad pick to a single-high FS he never saw closing... never looked for... never looked off.
Feet are good and pocket presence is not terrible, but he does drop his eyes to the rush and first instinct tends to be to bolt rather than slide in pocket. This showed vs. NIU as Montana never really generated pressure.
Reads-wise... looks for open receivers rather than reads defenses... and still throws into double coverage.
Still more to watch, but so far he looks very much like a multi-year project... at best...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I think it's interesting that Todd McShay has Lynch rated higher than Goff.
Don't agree with it, but I can understand it if you don't give added weight to the mental aspects of the game. To me that's the biggest hurdle there is and so far Goff is the only one I see who has already cleared that bar.
Fractured his throwing wrist, had surgery in October. Missed the rest of the season until a couple weeks ago played the FCS championship game against Jacksonville State.
Played like trash against Jacksonville State. 1 TD, 2 interceptions, 55% completion. Though he did have a couple of rushing touchdowns... (One interception was an incredible play by the DB, but shows his deep accuracy needs some consistency)
Personally I don't understand the hype from what I've seen so far, but we'll see. I see him staring down guys, I don't really see him throwing guys open (or throwing with anticipation)
Just spent my first session with Wentz watched his early stuff vs. Montana and NIU. After getting over my usual running-QB-gag-reflex I saw some good, but more areas in need of development than either Goff or Lynch.
First need... touch... doesn't have the ability to drop balls into windows with a man yards underneath... ends up throwing too flat. Otherwise the arm talent is there. Looked to me like the throwing mechanics are there. TOR in both directions is good.
Second need... vision... threw a bad pick to a single-high FS he never saw closing... never looked for... never looked off.
Feet are good and pocket presence is not terrible, but he does drop his eyes to the rush and first instinct tends to be to bolt rather than slide in pocket. This showed vs. NIU as Montana never really generated pressure.
Reads-wise... looks for open receivers rather than reads defenses... and still throws into double coverage.
Still more to watch, but so far he looks very much like a multi-year project... at best...
Don't agree with it, but I can understand it if you don't give added weight to the mental aspects of the game. To me that's the biggest hurdle there is and so far Goff is the only one I see who has already cleared that bar.
Just spent my first session with Wentz watched his early stuff vs. Montana and NIU. After getting over my usual running-QB-gag-reflex I saw some good, but more areas in need of development than either Goff or Lynch.
First need... touch... doesn't have the ability to drop balls into windows with a man yards underneath... ends up throwing too flat. Otherwise the arm talent is there. Looked to me like the throwing mechanics are there. TOR in both directions is good.
Second need... vision... threw a bad pick to a single-high FS he never saw closing... never looked for... never looked off.
Feet are good and pocket presence is not terrible, but he does drop his eyes to the rush and first instinct tends to be to bolt rather than slide in pocket. This showed vs. NIU as Montana never really generated pressure.
Reads-wise... looks for open receivers rather than reads defenses... and still throws into double coverage.
Still more to watch, but so far he looks very much like a multi-year project... at best...
If you're talking about the pick in the NIU game, I think that was just a bad throw. He short armed it a bit and under threw the bust route... if he had put a little more on it, it would have been six.
But that also could point back to touch.
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I think it's interesting that Todd McShay has Lynch rated higher than Goff.
Don't agree with it, but I can understand it if you don't give added weight to the mental aspects of the game. To me that's the biggest hurdle there is and so far Goff is the only one I see who has already cleared that bar.
Fractured his throwing wrist, had surgery in October. Missed the rest of the season until a couple weeks ago played the FCS championship game against Jacksonville State.
Played like trash against Jacksonville State. 1 TD, 2 interceptions, 55% completion. Though he did have a couple of rushing touchdowns... (One interception was an incredible play by the DB, but shows his deep accuracy needs some consistency)
Personally I don't understand the hype from what I've seen so far, but we'll see. I see him staring down guys, I don't really see him throwing guys open (or throwing with anticipation)
Just spent my first session with Wentz watched his early stuff vs. Montana and NIU. After getting over my usual running-QB-gag-reflex I saw some good, but more areas in need of development than either Goff or Lynch.
First need... touch... doesn't have the ability to drop balls into windows with a man yards underneath... ends up throwing too flat. Otherwise the arm talent is there. Looked to me like the throwing mechanics are there. TOR in both directions is good.
Second need... vision... threw a bad pick to a single-high FS he never saw closing... never looked for... never looked off.
Feet are good and pocket presence is not terrible, but he does drop his eyes to the rush and first instinct tends to be to bolt rather than slide in pocket. This showed vs. NIU as Montana never really generated pressure.
Reads-wise... looks for open receivers rather than reads defenses... and still throws into double coverage.
Still more to watch, but so far he looks very much like a multi-year project... at best...
Don't agree with it, but I can understand it if you don't give added weight to the mental aspects of the game. To me that's the biggest hurdle there is and so far Goff is the only one I see who has already cleared that bar.
Just spent my first session with Wentz watched his early stuff vs. Montana and NIU. After getting over my usual running-QB-gag-reflex I saw some good, but more areas in need of development than either Goff or Lynch.
First need... touch... doesn't have the ability to drop balls into windows with a man yards underneath... ends up throwing too flat. Otherwise the arm talent is there. Looked to me like the throwing mechanics are there. TOR in both directions is good.
Second need... vision... threw a bad pick to a single-high FS he never saw closing... never looked for... never looked off.
Feet are good and pocket presence is not terrible, but he does drop his eyes to the rush and first instinct tends to be to bolt rather than slide in pocket. This showed vs. NIU as Montana never really generated pressure.
Reads-wise... looks for open receivers rather than reads defenses... and still throws into double coverage.
Still more to watch, but so far he looks very much like a multi-year project... at best...
TD@TDGawdWentz Wentz Wentz RT @MikeMayock: Same drive- nfl window on Y seam- touch and accuracy
Also, I am watching Goff a lot. His arm on the 20+ stuff, especially to the sidelines, is not impressive. At all.
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Either, Goff, Lynch, or Wentz would be an upgrade. The shortest one is 6'4", Wentz might be the best pro QB.
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Sports pundits gain their audiences through attention. Often going against the grain is an attention-getting ploy.
Not only that but the quarterback position is so often a boom or bust pic.
If you come out against every quarterback taken in the first round odds are you will be right on some level and then you can brag about it forever.
WSS
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