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#1 vs. #2

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  • This is not about boxing or college football basketball #1 vs. #2.....it is about the NFL draft. Here I list the #1 and the #2 draft picks going back to 1970...and I am bolding those who I believe had the best career. So, lets see how these things shake out. A few years I cannot decide and I will note those. # means HOF player:

    1970 Terry Bradshaw# vs. Mike McCoy

    1971 Jim Plunkett vs. Archie Manning

    1972 Walt Patulski vs. Sherman White

    1973 John Matuscak vs. Bert Jones

    1974 Too Tall Jones vs. Bo Mathews

    1975 Steve Bartkowski vs. Randy White#

    1976 Leroy Selmon# vs. Steve Niehaus

    1977 Ricky Bell vs. Tony Dorsett#

    1978 Earl Campbell vs. Art Still

    1979 Tom Cousineau vs. Mike Bell.....first up for grabs...both bust material

    1980 Billy Sims vs. Lam Jones

    1981 George Rogers vs. Lawrence Taylor#

    1982 Ken Sims vs. Johnnie Cooks....up for grabs, both not good

    1983 John Elway# vs. Eric Dickerson # only year since 1970 both 1 and 2 made HOF

    1984 Irving Fryar vs. Dean Steinkuhler

    1985 Bruce Smith# vs. Bill Fralic

    1986 Bo Jackson vs. Tony Casillas. despite Bo's short brilliance, Casillas had better career.

    1987 Vinny Testaverde vs. Cornelius Bennett. up for grabs...both had very productive careers

    1988 Aundray Bruce vs. Neil Smith

    1989 Troy Aikman# vs. Tony Mandarich

    1990 Jeff George vs. Blair Thomas

    1991 Russell Maryland vs. Eric Turner up for grabs, both good players

    1992 Steve Emtman vs. Quentin Coryatt. up for grabs, both basically busts

    1993 Drew Bledsoe vs. Rick Mirer

    1994 Dan Wilkinson vs. Marshall Faulk#

    1995 Kijana Carter vs. Tony Boselli

    1996 Keyshawn Johnson vs. Kevin Hardy up for grabs, both good, not great

    1997 Orlando Pace# vs. Darrell Russell

    1998 Peyton Manning vs. Ryan Leaf. The biggest disparity between #1 and #2 perhaps ever...at least in this period. Only Akili Smith and Art Schlichter rival Leaf for biggest bust ever.

    1999 Tim Couch vs. Donovan McNabb

    2000 Courtney Brown vs. Lavar Arrington

    2001 Michael Vick vs. Leonard Davis

    2002 David Carr vs. Julius Peppers

    2003 Carson Palmer vs. Charles Rogers

    2004 Eli Manning vs. Robert Gallery

    2005 Alex Smith vs. Ronnie Brown

    2006 Mario Williams vs. Reggie Bush

    2007 Jamarcus Russell vs. Calvin Johnson

    2008 Jake Long vs. Chris Long only time 1 and 2 had same last name!!

    2009 Matt Stafford vs. Jason Smith

    2010 Sam Bradford vs. N. Suh

    2011 Cam Newton vs. Von Miller if both keep going as is we could have 2d HOF 1&2 duo.

    2012 Andrew Luck vs. Robert GriffinIII

    2013 Eric Fisher vs. Luke Joeckel up for grabs, too soon to tell

    2014 Jadaveon Clowney vs. Greg Robinson too soon

    2015 Jameis Winston vs. Marcus Mariota too soon

  • In my estimation the #1s had the better player in 23 years, the #2 in 14 seasons with 6 up for grabs and 3 too soon to tell.

    Give your opinion on the up for grabs....or if you disagree with me on any of these.

  • In time, Luck vs RG3 might get close to Manning vs Leaf, but not completely there. RG3 at least had *a* productive year before flaming out (and subsequently ending in cleveland apparently)

  • 2007 was a tough call 🙂

  • In time, Luck vs RG3 might get close to Manning vs Leaf, but not completely there. RG3 at least had *a* productive year before flaming out (and subsequently ending in cleveland apparently)

    @gftchris said:

    In time, Luck vs RG3 might get close to Manning vs Leaf, but not completely there. RG3 at least had *a* productive year before flaming out (and subsequently ending in cleveland apparently)

    That can never happen. RG3 already has a Pro Bowl appearance. His PFR CA is at 32. Leaf's PFR CA was a 1.

    The biggest disparities between 1 and 2 in regard to Production,using the CA is:

    Peyton 177 vs. Leaf 1: 176 points

    Carson Palmer 100 vs. Charles Rogers 4: 96

    Lawrence Taylor 137 vs. George Rogers 46: 91 Taylor the #2

    Bruce Smith 148 vs. Bill Fralic 58 90

  • Yeah, sure, I specifically said it won't match.

  • Not counting the last 3 years, the closest Race between 1 and 2 players in terms of PFR production average are the following:

    1978 Earl Campbell 68 pts. Art Still 73 5 pt differential

    In this case I gave the edge to Campbell...even though he had fewer CA points.....as Earl did make the HOF...

    1979 Cousineau 36 pts Mike Bell 45 ... 9 points different

    1982 Ken Sims 32 pts vs. Johnnie Cooks 40 pt ....8 pt different

    1991 Russell Maryland 60 pts, E-Rock 52 8 pt different

    1987 Vinny Testaverde 97 pts vs. Cornelius Bennet 90 pts. 7 pt difference

  • In time, Luck vs RG3 might get close to Manning vs Leaf, but not completely there. RG3 at least had *a* productive year before flaming out (and subsequently ending in cleveland apparently)

    @gftchris said:

    In time, Luck vs RG3 might get close to Manning vs Leaf, but not completely there. RG3 at least had *a* productive year before flaming out (and subsequently ending in cleveland apparently)

    I don't know if I'd call Luck a world beater as of yet, either.

  • @gftchris said:

    In time, Luck vs RG3 might get close to Manning vs Leaf, but not completely there. RG3 at least had *a* productive year before flaming out (and subsequently ending in cleveland apparently)

    I don't know if I'd call Luck a world beater as of yet, either.

    @tim-couch-pulls-out said:

    I don't know if I'd call Luck a world beater as of yet, either.

    Oddly enough....to date Luck has a 45 PFR CA....where Griffin is at 32 pts. Not as big of a difference as you would expect.

  • @tim-couch-pulls-out said:

    I don't know if I'd call Luck a world beater as of yet, either.

    Oddly enough....to date Luck has a 45 PFR CA....where Griffin is at 32 pts. Not as big of a difference as you would expect.

    @the-gipper said:

    Oddly enough....to date Luck has a 45 PFR CA....where Griffin is at 32 pts. Not as big of a difference as you would expect.

    Right, I think that story is yet to be written. Luck has had some troubles so far, as has Griffin. Sure, Luck is still the better choice, but it's not as clear cut as it could have been.

    Plus, we all know RG3 is going to come to Cleveland and throw for 700 TDs and 5 INT's over the next 10 years.

  • 2007 was a tough call 🙂

    @darren15 said:

    2007 was a tough call 🙂

    Ah......NO

  • @the-gipper said:

    Oddly enough....to date Luck has a 45 PFR CA....where Griffin is at 32 pts. Not as big of a difference as you would expect.

    Right, I think that story is yet to be written. Luck has had some troubles so far, as has Griffin. Sure, Luck is still the better choice, but it's not as clear cut as it could have been.

    Plus, we all know RG3 is going to come to Cleveland and throw for 700 TDs and 5 INT's over the next 10 years.

    @tim-couch-pulls-out said:

    Right, I think that story is yet to be written. Luck has had some troubles so far, as has Griffin. Sure, Luck is still the better choice, but it's not as clear cut as it could have been.

    Plus, we all know RG3 is going to come to Cleveland and throw for 700 TDs and 5 INT's over the next 10 years.

    Ah.....YES

  • LOL at robert gallery

  • Even though he's a QB, I'm not yet ready to rate Cam Newton over Von Miller...IMO it's at best a tie for Cam although both are fantastic players. Von was instrumental in his Team winning a Super Bowl...Cam was instrumental in his Team LOSING a Super Bowl.

    We'll see.

    Mike

  • Even though he's a QB, I'm not yet ready to rate Cam Newton over Von Miller...IMO it's at best a tie for Cam although both are fantastic players. Von was instrumental in his Team winning a Super Bowl...Cam was instrumental in his Team LOSING a Super Bowl.

    We'll see.

    Mike

    @canton-mike said:

    Even though he's a QB, I'm not yet ready to rate Cam Newton over Von Miller...IMO it's at best a tie for Cam although both are fantastic players. Von was instrumental in his Team winning a Super Bowl...Cam was instrumental in his Team LOSING a Super Bowl.

    We'll see.

    Mike

    Fair point. That is why I said we may have another Elway/Dickerson situation that year. Both superb players. That is, after all, what one should expect from the #1 and #2 players taken in a draft.

  • Even though he's a QB, I'm not yet ready to rate Cam Newton over Von Miller...IMO it's at best a tie for Cam although both are fantastic players. Von was instrumental in his Team winning a Super Bowl...Cam was instrumental in his Team LOSING a Super Bowl.

    We'll see.

    Mike

    @canton-mike said:

    Even though he's a QB, I'm not yet ready to rate Cam Newton over Von Miller...IMO it's at best a tie for Cam although both are fantastic players. Von was instrumental in his Team winning a Super Bowl...Cam was instrumental in his Team LOSING a Super Bowl.

    We'll see.

    Mike

    Maybe, but Cam was also instrumental in getting his team to the Super Bowl...maybe more than Von.

  • @canton-mike said:

    Even though he's a QB, I'm not yet ready to rate Cam Newton over Von Miller...IMO it's at best a tie for Cam although both are fantastic players. Von was instrumental in his Team winning a Super Bowl...Cam was instrumental in his Team LOSING a Super Bowl.

    We'll see.

    Mike

    Maybe, but Cam was also instrumental in getting his team to the Super Bowl...maybe more than Von.

    @tim-couch-pulls-out said:

    Maybe, but Cam was also instrumental in getting his team to the Super Bowl...maybe more than Von.

    Ah, no. About equal.

  • Poor damn Archie Manning. Can never win at nothing. Got his ass kicked every weekend for nothing but 2 sons that barely get touched. My Browns QB since 1999..

  • @tim-couch-pulls-out said:

    Maybe, but Cam was also instrumental in getting his team to the Super Bowl...maybe more than Von.

    Ah, no. About equal.

    @texasag1969 said:

    Ah, no. About equal.

    I'd venture a bet that the Miller-less Broncos finish with a better record than a Cam-less Panthers.

    Miller is an elite player on an otherwise talented defense.

    Cam is more or less the glue that held the Panthers offense together.

    Not downplaying the acheivements of Von, but Cam probably means more to the Panthers because, without him, they have almost nothing.

    This is very similar to the notion that Peyton should have won MVP in 2011.Peyton's absence led that Colts team to a meltdown, therefore he was clearly their most valuable player.

  • @canton-mike said:

    Even though he's a QB, I'm not yet ready to rate Cam Newton over Von Miller...IMO it's at best a tie for Cam although both are fantastic players. Von was instrumental in his Team winning a Super Bowl...Cam was instrumental in his Team LOSING a Super Bowl.

    We'll see.

    Mike

    Maybe, but Cam was also instrumental in getting his team to the Super Bowl...maybe more than Von.

    @tim-couch-pulls-out said:

    Maybe, but Cam was also instrumental in getting his team to the Super Bowl...maybe more than Von.

    Yeah, it's just hard to argue who's the better one here. No clear winner at this time.

    Mike