Move Over Sashi .....
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Stole my anticipated reply to your reply...
So basically you are in favor of replacing a person whose name you do not know, let alone his abilities with a Polian.
I admit Bill is very knowledgeable. Can you admit you don't know why he was fired from Indy? Or that he once accosted an employee of another organization?
Do a google...
Spoiler alert... Bill does not play well with others. Therefore he does not fit in our consensus driven FO. Thus my original post... exactly my original post.
Right. I don't know this mystery man's name. (and I don't think you really do either). But whomever he may be.....he be shit.
So, asshole, you can tell us who you think it is, or not. I don't care. Whoever the fuck he is fuck him.......he is easily replaceable by something/anything better.
Right. I don't know this mystery man's name. (and I don't think you really do either). But whomever he may be.....he be shit.
So, asshole, you can tell us who you think it is, or not. I don't care. Whoever the fuck he is fuck him.......he is easily replaceable by something/anything better.
Temper, temper, Gip...
Didn't do the search did you? If you had, you'd know I don't think it is "one guy". The search term was a clue.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I have been clamoring for a bill Pollian to come here and run things.. But , it just doesn't seem like it will ever happen... If we procured someone with half of that kind of football savvy.. We would be in a better place for sure.. But.. I guess I can dream....
I have been clamoring for a bill Pollian to come here and run things.. But , it just doesn't seem like it will ever happen... If we procured someone with half of that kind of football savvy.. We would be in a better place for sure.. But.. I guess I can dream....
I don't know that we need a Polian to run things....but I think we need one to consult on things.
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Right. I don't know this mystery man's name. (and I don't think you really do either). But whomever he may be.....he be shit.
So, asshole, you can tell us who you think it is, or not. I don't care. Whoever the fuck he is fuck him.......he is easily replaceable by something/anything better.
Temper, temper, Gip...
Didn't do the search did you? If you had, you'd know I don't think it is "one guy". The search term was a clue.
Temper, temper, Gip...
Didn't do the search did you? If you had, you'd know I don't think it is "one guy". The search term was a clue.
No, and I never will. Just fucking say it or shut the fuck up. In case you hadn't see the thread in the Barber Shop you should know that I am not feeling well enough to play stupid games at this point.
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Well, if you don't trust him to be a good evaluator and you think he's terrible at his job, and the reports are that the Browns love Mitch Trubisky, it stands to reason that you don't believe Mitch Trubisky is a good football player.
No, it doesn't. That is illogical. I am nothing but logical. I am not trusting "his"...whoever the fuck "he" is.. evaluation of Trubisky. I am trusting my own and the fact that the Browns know they need a QB.
Perfect. Problem solved. We'll just take Myles Garrett instead.
Well, if you don't trust him to be a good evaluator and you think he's terrible at his job, and the reports are that the Browns love Mitch Trubisky, it stands to reason that you don't believe Mitch Trubisky is a good football player.
No, it doesn't. That is illogical. I am nothing but logical. I am not trusting "his"...whoever the fuck "he" is.. evaluation of Trubisky. I am trusting my own and the fact that the Browns know they need a QB.
Perfect. Problem solved. We'll just take Myles Garrett instead.
So you're saying that you have the same evaluation of talent of Trubisky that the Browns have?
But I thought the Browns talent evaluation was terrible? So either Trubisky is bad, you're bad, or the Browns know what they're doing.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Well, if you don't trust him to be a good evaluator and you think he's terrible at his job, and the reports are that the Browns love Mitch Trubisky, it stands to reason that you don't believe Mitch Trubisky is a good football player.
No, it doesn't. That is illogical. I am nothing but logical. I am not trusting "his"...whoever the fuck "he" is.. evaluation of Trubisky. I am trusting my own and the fact that the Browns know they need a QB.
Perfect. Problem solved. We'll just take Myles Garrett instead.
So you're saying that you have the same evaluation of talent of Trubisky that the Browns have?
But I thought the Browns talent evaluation was terrible? So either Trubisky is bad, you're bad, or the Browns know what they're doing.
So you're saying that you have the same evaluation of talent of Trubisky that the Browns have?
No. That is not what I am saying. I am saying that the Browns should have the same evaluation of his talent that I do. that they should recognize that they need a QB. That they should recognize that he is likely the prospect they should be "honing in" on.
But I thought the Browns talent evaluation was terrible? So either Trubisky is bad, you're bad, or the Browns know what they're doing.
Or Trubuski is good, I am good, and they are smart enough to follow along. Which hopefully they are.
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So you're saying that you have the same evaluation of talent of Trubisky that the Browns have?
No. That is not what I am saying. I am saying that the Browns should have the same evaluation of his talent that I do. that they should recognize that they need a QB. That they should recognize that he is likely the prospect they should be "honing in" on.
But I thought the Browns talent evaluation was terrible? So either Trubisky is bad, you're bad, or the Browns know what they're doing.
Or Trubuski is good, I am good, and they are smart enough to follow along. Which hopefully they are.
So you're saying that you have the same evaluation of talent of Trubisky that the Browns have?
No. That is not what I am saying. I am saying that the Browns should have the same evaluation of his talent that I do. that they should recognize that they need a QB. That they should recognize that he is likely the prospect they should be "honing in" on.
But I thought the Browns talent evaluation was terrible? So either Trubisky is bad, you're bad, or the Browns know what they're doing.
Or Trubuski is good, I am good, and they are smart enough to follow along. Which hopefully they are.
So you had your own evaluation of Trubisky before the Browns ever did?
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So you're saying that you have the same evaluation of talent of Trubisky that the Browns have?
No. That is not what I am saying. I am saying that the Browns should have the same evaluation of his talent that I do. that they should recognize that they need a QB. That they should recognize that he is likely the prospect they should be "honing in" on.
But I thought the Browns talent evaluation was terrible? So either Trubisky is bad, you're bad, or the Browns know what they're doing.
Or Trubuski is good, I am good, and they are smart enough to follow along. Which hopefully they are.
So you had your own evaluation of Trubisky before the Browns ever did?
So you had your own evaluation of Trubisky before the Browns ever did?
No, that is not what I said. Are you being purposely obtuse, or is this just the way of you?
I mean, now that Trump has been elected is it en vogue to be thick headed? (lets see the reaction that gets)
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So you had your own evaluation of Trubisky before the Browns ever did?
No, that is not what I said. Are you being purposely obtuse, or is this just the way of you?
I mean, now that Trump has been elected is it en vogue to be thick headed? (lets see the reaction that gets)
No, that is not what I said. Are you being purposely obtuse, or is this just the way of you?
I mean, now that Trump has been elected is it en vogue to be thick headed? (lets see the reaction that gets)
"Or Trubuski is good, I am good, and they are smart enough to follow along."
Curious verbiage there for someone who isn't claiming they were the first to do something.
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No, that is not what I said. Are you being purposely obtuse, or is this just the way of you?
I mean, now that Trump has been elected is it en vogue to be thick headed? (lets see the reaction that gets)
"Or Trubuski is good, I am good, and they are smart enough to follow along."
Curious verbiage there for someone who isn't claiming they were the first to do something.
"Or Trubuski is good, I am good, and they are smart enough to follow along."
Curious verbiage there for someone who isn't claiming they were the first to do something.
Well, I don't think it is me they have to follow, really. They just have to do the right, smart thing. And I believe drafting Trubisky is that thing.
But, if you want to give me credit, I will take it. How much does that pay?
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i like the way some think or know it's a consensus thing, yet throw only one mug out there from the front office to speak of player acquisitions..........sashi.
if it's true that it is a consensus thing then i guess if one get's fired, they all get fired.
and berry was the guy for the colts since 2012? i can name only one good player they had drafted then AND since then.
thank god we got him!
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i like the way some think or know it's a consensus thing, yet throw only one mug out there from the front office to speak of player acquisitions..........sashi.
if it's true that it is a consensus thing then i guess if one get's fired, they all get fired.
and berry was the guy for the colts since 2012? i can name only one good player they had drafted then AND since then.
thank god we got him!
i like the way some think or know it's a consensus thing, yet throw only one mug out there from the front office to speak of player acquisitions..........sashi.
if it's true that it is a consensus thing then i guess if one get's fired, they all get fired.
and berry was the guy for the colts since 2012? i can name only one good player they had drafted then AND since then.
thank god we got him!
Yeah, if one gets fired, they probably all get fired. That's normally how these things work.
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i like the way some think or know it's a consensus thing, yet throw only one mug out there from the front office to speak of player acquisitions..........sashi.
if it's true that it is a consensus thing then i guess if one get's fired, they all get fired.
and berry was the guy for the colts since 2012? i can name only one good player they had drafted then AND since then.
thank god we got him!
Yeah, if one gets fired, they probably all get fired. That's normally how these things work.
Yeah, if one gets fired, they probably all get fired. That's normally how these things work.
yeah, i know arod. amazing how some can think a coordinator here or there can get canned and keep the rest of the staff together BUT in the FO that's unheard of,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,??
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i like the way some think or know it's a consensus thing, yet throw only one mug out there from the front office to speak of player acquisitions..........sashi.
if it's true that it is a consensus thing then i guess if one get's fired, they all get fired.
and berry was the guy for the colts since 2012? i can name only one good player they had drafted then AND since then.
thank god we got him!
i like the way some think or know it's a consensus thing, yet throw only one mug out there from the front office to speak of player acquisitions..........sashi.
if it's true that it is a consensus thing then i guess if one get's fired, they all get fired.
and berry was the guy for the colts since 2012? i can name only one good player they had drafted then AND since then.
thank god we got him!
Sashi gets to speak because he has final say. Gather the consensus from scouts & coaches, then make a decision. That's his job, so he does the speaking. Make sense?
In terms of who's involved in the discussions, start with Andrew Berry, who unlike you think was *not* involved in drafting. He was head of pro scouting. So there's that. And if you look at the players we've brought in from other teams, it doesn't look so bad (Collins, Taylor, Reynolds, Cooper, Davis etc).
Our director of college scouting is a guy called Bobby Vega. He's been in scouting, basically exclusively with the browns, for 10 seasons. Take that for what you will.
But equally importantly, you have the coaches. Everyone was raving about Hue Jackson being such a great football mind when he was hired a year ago, now he's taken over the 3-13 browns who were stripped bare of veteran talent and all of a sudden he's a know-nothing jackass? No, not buying it. If he's fired he walks in to another OC gig anywhere. Al Saunders, the WR coach, has been coaching in the league for 30+ years, he knows his stuff. Pep Hamilton has been coaching for 20 years, including OC, HC positions, and QB coaching. Kirby Wilson is the 'run game coordinator' or some shit. He, apparently, "has coached five running backs who rank in the top 25 for career rushing yards (Emmitt Smith #1, Curtis Martin #4, Edgerrin James #11, Adrian Peterson #17 and Thomas Jones #25)". So he knows talent.
The D side is less experienced, but the point remains - the 'football guys' in the front office are Hue Jackson and his senior coaches, Saunders, Hamilton, Horton. They, along with the scouts, make up the 'football brain trust' and Sashi is there to pull it all together. If you've got most of those guys agreed on a prospect, they're probably decent.
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i like the way some think or know it's a consensus thing, yet throw only one mug out there from the front office to speak of player acquisitions..........sashi.
if it's true that it is a consensus thing then i guess if one get's fired, they all get fired.
and berry was the guy for the colts since 2012? i can name only one good player they had drafted then AND since then.
thank god we got him!
Sashi gets to speak because he has final say. Gather the consensus from scouts & coaches, then make a decision. That's his job, so he does the speaking. Make sense?
In terms of who's involved in the discussions, start with Andrew Berry, who unlike you think was *not* involved in drafting. He was head of pro scouting. So there's that. And if you look at the players we've brought in from other teams, it doesn't look so bad (Collins, Taylor, Reynolds, Cooper, Davis etc).
Our director of college scouting is a guy called Bobby Vega. He's been in scouting, basically exclusively with the browns, for 10 seasons. Take that for what you will.
But equally importantly, you have the coaches. Everyone was raving about Hue Jackson being such a great football mind when he was hired a year ago, now he's taken over the 3-13 browns who were stripped bare of veteran talent and all of a sudden he's a know-nothing jackass? No, not buying it. If he's fired he walks in to another OC gig anywhere. Al Saunders, the WR coach, has been coaching in the league for 30+ years, he knows his stuff. Pep Hamilton has been coaching for 20 years, including OC, HC positions, and QB coaching. Kirby Wilson is the 'run game coordinator' or some shit. He, apparently, "has coached five running backs who rank in the top 25 for career rushing yards (Emmitt Smith #1, Curtis Martin #4, Edgerrin James #11, Adrian Peterson #17 and Thomas Jones #25)". So he knows talent.
The D side is less experienced, but the point remains - the 'football guys' in the front office are Hue Jackson and his senior coaches, Saunders, Hamilton, Horton. They, along with the scouts, make up the 'football brain trust' and Sashi is there to pull it all together. If you've got most of those guys agreed on a prospect, they're probably decent.
Gather the consensus from scouts & coaches, then make a decision. That's his job, so he does the speaking. Make sense?
Everyone was raving about Hue Jackson being such a great football mind when he was hired a year ago, now he's taken over the 3-13 browns who were stripped bare of veteran talent and all of a sudden he's a know-nothing jackass? No, not buying it. If he's fired he walks in to another OC gig anywhere.
To me, this consensus thing is another word for compromise.....and Shashi does more than the speaking....he is the bottom line....period
and "everyone" wasnt raving......just a bunch of people who instantly decided because he had one season as a HC he must be great....dude has barely even been an OC and never lasted more than one year in that role....
most of his career has been as a position coach, including at the Bengals.....where he was for 7 years...3 as WR's coach, 1 as ST asst, 1 as DB coach, 1 as RB coach....then, finally, OC.....
Such a brilliant offensive mind that they made him the ST asst and then DB coach....???
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if sashi is the 'bottom line' and get's final say then the consensus argument goes right out the window doesn't it?
bottom line someone has to have the title of GM......not co-GM or assistant GM, but GfuckingM.
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if sashi is the 'bottom line' and get's final say then the consensus argument goes right out the window doesn't it?
bottom line someone has to have the title of GM......not co-GM or assistant GM, but GfuckingM.
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I understand that of our 4 man gm team, that they have a combined on field football experience of 0, zero, Nada, nil, nothing! Add a player to the mix.
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Gather the consensus from scouts & coaches, then make a decision. That's his job, so he does the speaking. Make sense?
Everyone was raving about Hue Jackson being such a great football mind when he was hired a year ago, now he's taken over the 3-13 browns who were stripped bare of veteran talent and all of a sudden he's a know-nothing jackass? No, not buying it. If he's fired he walks in to another OC gig anywhere.
To me, this consensus thing is another word for compromise.....and Shashi does more than the speaking....he is the bottom line....period
and "everyone" wasnt raving......just a bunch of people who instantly decided because he had one season as a HC he must be great....dude has barely even been an OC and never lasted more than one year in that role....
most of his career has been as a position coach, including at the Bengals.....where he was for 7 years...3 as WR's coach, 1 as ST asst, 1 as DB coach, 1 as RB coach....then, finally, OC.....
Such a brilliant offensive mind that they made him the ST asst and then DB coach....???
Thanks for the help, Chris...
To me, this consensus thing is another word for compromise.....and Shashi does more than the speaking....he is the bottom line....period
Sounds like something an autocratic businessman used to making decisions would say...
if sashi is the 'bottom line' and get's final say then the consensus argument goes right out the window doesn't it?
bottom line someone has to have the title of GM......not co-GM or assistant GM, but GfuckingM.
If that's the way it works, yes, but there' nothing that says that is our way and plenty that says it is not.
For one thing, no one in our FO has the title, "GM". You can look for yourself...
http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/front-office.html
What was Sashi praised for when Haslam (or the Haslams) selected him? Facilitation... bringing minds together... driving consensus building. That is his job #1.
Can minds meet in every instance? No. And when that happens his role is to recognize it and decide when it is time to close the book on the discussion, and move the FO onto the next decision. This is the nature of the vast majority of his decisions.
But remember the definition of consensus... it is a position, a decision, that all can accept. That all can at minimum "live with". All do not have to embrace it, love it to the same degree, but all must be at least "OK with it". It is not the same as "settling" or "compromising". And it is not good enough that all are merely "OK with it".
Will there ever come a time when Sashi weighs the pros and cons of deadlocked staff and makes a decision in the absence of a consensus? Yes... but only if one side's argument is far stronger than the others is AND if there is no consensus alternative available. This will be rare and it will not involve Sashi alone in a closet with a DVD of a player's game tape.
How do I "know" the above? Because I did this job for about seven years... and I was damn good at it... at least that was the consensus of my "stakeholders", my internal customers and even my peers.
One last point... but it's an important one. Folks here can't get their head around a non-football guy in Sashi's role. I will tell you that the biggest obstacle to his job, the biggest threat to our FO's decision process is if its Facilitator comes into the process with an opinion. A strong "football guy" couldn't do what Sashi is charged with doing.
I've been there, too. Keeping a constant check that as Facilitator you do not steer or otherwise inject yourself, your opinion, your bias into the decision significantly adds to what is already an taxing job... a mentally, and occasionally even physically, exhausting job.
Sorry, Gip... I ended up explaining it again anyway... albeit in a slightly different way... hopefully a better way.
Although I doubt there will be consensus on that point...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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