Jonathan Paul Manziel
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EXACTLY GIP...
50%... Just like you said..
So why do you assume he will be on the bust side instead of the boom side?
EXACTLY GIP...
50%... Just like you said..
So why do you assume he will be on the bust side instead of the boom side?
I dont think he's saying bust...
I think the premise is that no one should assume either....bust or boom.....and for the exact same reasons
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EXACTLY GIP...
50%... Just like you said..
So why do you assume he will be on the bust side instead of the boom side?
I dont think he's saying bust...
I think the premise is that no one should assume either....bust or boom.....and for the exact same reasons
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Sure do.
If I recall, Elway was a west coast guy that wouldn't play in Baltimore because it was too cold.
I wonder if anyone ever took the time to tell him about the weather in Denver before he signed?
That was his excuse. The fact was he did NOT want to play for the mess that was the Robert Irsay Colts organization at that time, plus, apparently his old man hated Frank Kush, who was the Colts coach. They had their run-ins in college where Jack Elway coached as San Jose St. and Kush coached Arizona St.....which was before AZ St. joined the Pac-10. The whole "I want to play where its warm was just a canard.
That was his excuse. The fact was he did NOT want to play for the mess that was the Robert Irsay Colts organization at that time, plus, apparently his old man hated Frank Kush, who was the Colts coach. They had their run-ins in college where Jack Elway coached as San Jose St. and Kush coached Arizona St.....which was before AZ St. joined the Pac-10. The whole "I want to play where its warm was just a canard.
I recall the presser that John Elway had, where a reporter asked him about signing with the Yankees. The reporter reminded young Elway that it also got cold in NY, then John responded with "but baseball is played when the weather is warm". The rift between Jack Elway & Kush does put things into a different perspective though.
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EXACTLY GIP...
50%... Just like you said..
So why do you assume he will be on the bust side instead of the boom side?
EXACTLY GIP...
50%... Just like you said..
So why do you assume he will be on the bust side instead of the boom side?
Because the # of qbs under 6' 2' who went on to have HOF careers is damn short. Look it up PGL. Maybe you don't remember all the hoopla about RG III's height- or lack of. Manziel is even shorter. Again- I'm not saying Manziel will bust- but it was, and is a factor in his long term success in the NFL.
Another factor in his long term success is if JFF has learned he can't throw passes of his back foot into a triple covered Mike Evans for jump balls either. I'm sure Shanny has told him that crap won't fly in the NFL. You might have forgotten that little detail- I haven't. Playbook? You talking PLAYBOOK????
Problem I have with the Manzealots is they're (the more blinded ones at least) putting JFF in the Andrew Luck category of consensus #1 overall. Sure some guys thought he should be the #1 qb off the board- a bunch of others gave him a third round grade- and quite justifiably, I might add.
Oh- I'll pull a Shepsterism on ya- go ask him if he now wants to flip flop on the issue. Once upon a time he posited one of the best predictors of NFL success was the # of college starts a qb had. Andrew Luck, pass. JFF flunk.
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"" Another factor in his long term success is if JFF has learned he can't throw passes of his back foot into a triple covered Mike Evans for jump balls either.""
This is so overblown. Almost every "jump ball" to Mike Evans had to be thrown. Down 10 to Ole Miss with 5 minutes left from the 1 yard line on 3rd amd 30 is the most famous. Down 14 to bama with 30 seconds left is another.
And there's a reason Evans is known for catching these. Manziel wasn't stupid enough to throw those to a 5' 7" guy. He threw it up for his 6' 5" stud receiver to go get, and he did it maybe 10 times in 26 games and they almost always worked.
26 starts isn't enough in college? Thats how many Johnny started.
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"" Another factor in his long term success is if JFF has learned he can't throw passes of his back foot into a triple covered Mike Evans for jump balls either.""
This is so overblown. Almost every "jump ball" to Mike Evans had to be thrown. Down 10 to Ole Miss with 5 minutes left from the 1 yard line on 3rd amd 30 is the most famous. Down 14 to bama with 30 seconds left is another.
And there's a reason Evans is known for catching these. Manziel wasn't stupid enough to throw those to a 5' 7" guy. He threw it up for his 6' 5" stud receiver to go get, and he did it maybe 10 times in 26 games and they almost always worked.
26 starts isn't enough in college? Thats how many Johnny started.
26 starts isn't enough in college? Thats how many Johnny started.
It only matters in the draft. It means squat in the NFL. He's got to prove himself. We'll just have to wait and see.
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" It only matters in the draft. It means squat in the NFL. He's got to prove himself. We'll just have to wait and see."
I agrree.
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EXACTLY GIP...
50%... Just like you said..
So why do you assume he will be on the bust side instead of the boom side?
Because the # of qbs under 6' 2' who went on to have HOF careers is damn short. Look it up PGL. Maybe you don't remember all the hoopla about RG III's height- or lack of. Manziel is even shorter. Again- I'm not saying Manziel will bust- but it was, and is a factor in his long term success in the NFL.
Another factor in his long term success is if JFF has learned he can't throw passes of his back foot into a triple covered Mike Evans for jump balls either. I'm sure Shanny has told him that crap won't fly in the NFL. You might have forgotten that little detail- I haven't. Playbook? You talking PLAYBOOK????
Problem I have with the Manzealots is they're (the more blinded ones at least) putting JFF in the Andrew Luck category of consensus #1 overall. Sure some guys thought he should be the #1 qb off the board- a bunch of others gave him a third round grade- and quite justifiably, I might add.
Oh- I'll pull a Shepsterism on ya- go ask him if he now wants to flip flop on the issue. Once upon a time he posited one of the best predictors of NFL success was the # of college starts a qb had. Andrew Luck, pass. JFF flunk.
Because the # of qbs under 6' 2' who went on to have HOF careers is damn short. Look it up PGL. Maybe you don't remember all the hoopla about RG III's height- or lack of. Manziel is even shorter. Again- I'm not saying Manziel will bust- but it was, and is a factor in his long term success in the NFL.
Another factor in his long term success is if JFF has learned he can't throw passes of his back foot into a triple covered Mike Evans for jump balls either. I'm sure Shanny has told him that crap won't fly in the NFL. You might have forgotten that little detail- I haven't. Playbook? You talking PLAYBOOK????
, Michael
Problem I have with the Manzealots is they're (the more blinded ones at least) putting JFF in the Andrew Luck category of consensus #1 overall. Sure some guys thought he should be the #1 qb off the board- a bunch of others gave him a third round grade- and quite justifiably, I might add.
Oh- I'll pull a Shepsterism on ya- go ask him if he now wants to flip flop on the issue. Once upon a time he posited one of the best predictors of NFL success was the # of college starts a qb had. Andrew Luck, pass. JFF flunk.
Hoorta..
Why did we trade up to select Johnny? Did we do it because we think he will boom or bust?
Height means absolutely nothing... 0... zilch.. Russell Wilson, Drew Brees, Frank Tarkenton, Otto Grahm, Doug Flutie, Michael Vick, Joe Theisman, Eddie LeBaron, Sonny Jurgensen... I mean it goes on..
Short QB's that actually get drafted end up playing pretty well.
RG3 isnt short.. he's average coming in at a shade over 6"2
The toss ups to Evans? Sure.. that happened on a handful of occasions.. just like any QB.. all QBs toss balls up every now and then.
Johnny almost every record there is. He put up POINTS.. hes FAST.. he is ACCURATE.. he has a GREAT ARM.. and he has excellent INSTINCTS.. he has a HIGH IQ... he is a LEADER.. he WORKS HARD (like before training camp he was working with the QB trainer every day in the sun for 6 months leading up to the draft)!! He PLAYS HARD! He NEVER GIVES UP (like on Gruden QB camp.. John showed Johnny his favorite play.. when Johnnys RB fumbled the ball.. Johnny ran down the field, STRIPPED THE BALL from the defender... then another defender picked it up.. Johnny got up and continued to pursue and took him down! Thats heart!)
Every one of the things I wrote up there are true.. thats why he was worth a first rounder.. and that is why he is worth your time as a fan.
Ive been an avid Browns fan all my life.. I joined this forum for the first time back in 2006 when I was 17 yearls old. Im not a "Manzealot" Im a BROWNS FANATIC. I want what is best for this team MOVING FORWARD. I think that whats best.. is JOHNNY MANZIEL
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Because the # of qbs under 6' 2' who went on to have HOF careers is damn short. Look it up PGL. Maybe you don't remember all the hoopla about RG III's height- or lack of. Manziel is even shorter. Again- I'm not saying Manziel will bust- but it was, and is a factor in his long term success in the NFL.
Another factor in his long term success is if JFF has learned he can't throw passes of his back foot into a triple covered Mike Evans for jump balls either. I'm sure Shanny has told him that crap won't fly in the NFL. You might have forgotten that little detail- I haven't. Playbook? You talking PLAYBOOK????
, Michael
Problem I have with the Manzealots is they're (the more blinded ones at least) putting JFF in the Andrew Luck category of consensus #1 overall. Sure some guys thought he should be the #1 qb off the board- a bunch of others gave him a third round grade- and quite justifiably, I might add.
Oh- I'll pull a Shepsterism on ya- go ask him if he now wants to flip flop on the issue. Once upon a time he posited one of the best predictors of NFL success was the # of college starts a qb had. Andrew Luck, pass. JFF flunk.
Hoorta..
Why did we trade up to select Johnny? Did we do it because we think he will boom or bust?
Height means absolutely nothing... 0... zilch.. Russell Wilson, Drew Brees, Frank Tarkenton, Otto Grahm, Doug Flutie, Michael Vick, Joe Theisman, Eddie LeBaron, Sonny Jurgensen... I mean it goes on..
Short QB's that actually get drafted end up playing pretty well.
RG3 isnt short.. he's average coming in at a shade over 6"2
The toss ups to Evans? Sure.. that happened on a handful of occasions.. just like any QB.. all QBs toss balls up every now and then.
Johnny almost every record there is. He put up POINTS.. hes FAST.. he is ACCURATE.. he has a GREAT ARM.. and he has excellent INSTINCTS.. he has a HIGH IQ... he is a LEADER.. he WORKS HARD (like before training camp he was working with the QB trainer every day in the sun for 6 months leading up to the draft)!! He PLAYS HARD! He NEVER GIVES UP (like on Gruden QB camp.. John showed Johnny his favorite play.. when Johnnys RB fumbled the ball.. Johnny ran down the field, STRIPPED THE BALL from the defender... then another defender picked it up.. Johnny got up and continued to pursue and took him down! Thats heart!)
Every one of the things I wrote up there are true.. thats why he was worth a first rounder.. and that is why he is worth your time as a fan.
Ive been an avid Browns fan all my life.. I joined this forum for the first time back in 2006 when I was 17 yearls old. Im not a "Manzealot" Im a BROWNS FANATIC. I want what is best for this team MOVING FORWARD. I think that whats best.. is JOHNNY MANZIEL
Hoorta..
Why did we trade up to select Johnny? Did we do it because we think he will boom or bust?
Every one of the things I wrote up there are true.. thats why he was worth a first rounder.. and that is why he is worth your time as a fan.
Ive been an avid Browns fan all my life.. I joined this forum for the first time back in 2006 when I was 17 yearls old. Im not a "Manzealot" Im a BROWNS FANATIC. I want what is best for this team MOVING FORWARD. I think that whats best.. is JOHNNY MANZIEL
Of course we drafted him in the first round because we thought he'd be great. LOL, you think teams draft players in the first round because the FO thought they would bust?
FWIW, I do think Manziel will eventually supplant Hoyer as the starter. When and how that happens remains to be seen. MHO is that time isn't now- as long as the Browns are in the playoff hunt. Right now JFF is the best situation possible- learning the pro game, learning the playbook, and learning from a TOTAL professional in Hoyer how to prepare for a game.
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Nice post PL.
Johnny is in a great situation, I agree. He doesn't need any help working like a professional, though. He's always worked hard and been a good teammate.
It would help if the media and crazy "fans" didn't follow him around like the pied piper, but Manziel sells. It's the price you pay for being a superstar. Johnny didn't ask for that, his play on the field made him an espn darling, and "Manziel news" has been beaten to death ever since.
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How many QB's who ran the air raid offense in college have successfully transitioned to the nfl? Honest question. Anyone done that research?
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Tim Couch ran the Air Raid.. Nick Foles.. Kevin Kolb..John Beck.. Case Keenum..Brandon Weeden..Geno Smith.. Max Hall..
Not the best track record I will admit
However.. I would also like to talk about Case Keenum.. EXTREMELY underrated in the NFL.. the kid put up #'s but is getting looked over in my opinion.. Hes pretty good
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all this hoyer v. manziel talk is just that....at the end of the season the brown's management will make their decision re hoyer and manziel.....maybe hoyer will play lights out and take the browns to the Super Bowl and get the big long term contract he wants, but then again, maybe he won't.....anyone can have an opinion, but until the season's over, or the browns lose 2-3 in a row, with real bad qb play, that status quo will remain.....in the meantime, if he's smart, manziel will make good use of this time and work as hard as he can to learn all that he can......it should have become obvious to him by now that a large part of a quarter back's success in the nfl is a function of what goes on in his head, can he quickly make good reads, decipher defenses, manage the offense to get it in a positive rhythm, etc......manziel may provide an extra dimension because of his athleticism but that alone isn't sufficient, he needs to learn how to be a smart nfl quarterback.....i look forward to seeing him play, hopefully with the browns, but if not there, for another team.....my sense is he will succeed, but only time will tell....
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What reputable spots are open until 02:00 Downtown?
Regardless of reputation, who here has ever "hung out" with Mom until the wee hours?
And did Oedipus invent the money sign?
What reputable spots are open until 02:00 Downtown?
Regardless of reputation, who here has ever "hung out" with Mom until the wee hours?
And did Oedipus invent the money sign?
Your anti JFF is showing loud and clear, again.
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Your anti JFF is showing loud and clear, again.
At least you didn't play the "hater" card...
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The Browns did not draft Manziel as a "marketing ploy" otherwise Jacksonville would have snatched him up. The Browns don't have problems selling tickets.
He was their #1 ranked QB. End of story.
Nobody knows what he will do on the field and that can be debated all day.
The Browns did not draft Manziel as a "marketing ploy" otherwise Jacksonville would have snatched him up. The Browns don't have problems selling tickets.
He was their #1 ranked QB. End of story.
Nobody knows what he will do on the field and that can be debated all day.
Doubt it.
Bottles was likely their #1 ranked QB.
You don't trade back when your #1 ranked QB is on the board.
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Because the # of qbs under 6' 2' who went on to have HOF careers is damn short. Look it up PGL. Maybe you don't remember all the hoopla about RG III's height- or lack of. Manziel is even shorter. Again- I'm not saying Manziel will bust- but it was, and is a factor in his long term success in the NFL.
Another factor in his long term success is if JFF has learned he can't throw passes of his back foot into a triple covered Mike Evans for jump balls either. I'm sure Shanny has told him that crap won't fly in the NFL. You might have forgotten that little detail- I haven't. Playbook? You talking PLAYBOOK????
, Michael
Problem I have with the Manzealots is they're (the more blinded ones at least) putting JFF in the Andrew Luck category of consensus #1 overall. Sure some guys thought he should be the #1 qb off the board- a bunch of others gave him a third round grade- and quite justifiably, I might add.
Oh- I'll pull a Shepsterism on ya- go ask him if he now wants to flip flop on the issue. Once upon a time he posited one of the best predictors of NFL success was the # of college starts a qb had. Andrew Luck, pass. JFF flunk.
Hoorta..
Why did we trade up to select Johnny? Did we do it because we think he will boom or bust?
Height means absolutely nothing... 0... zilch.. Russell Wilson, Drew Brees, Frank Tarkenton, Otto Grahm, Doug Flutie, Michael Vick, Joe Theisman, Eddie LeBaron, Sonny Jurgensen... I mean it goes on..
Short QB's that actually get drafted end up playing pretty well.
RG3 isnt short.. he's average coming in at a shade over 6"2
The toss ups to Evans? Sure.. that happened on a handful of occasions.. just like any QB.. all QBs toss balls up every now and then.
Johnny almost every record there is. He put up POINTS.. hes FAST.. he is ACCURATE.. he has a GREAT ARM.. and he has excellent INSTINCTS.. he has a HIGH IQ... he is a LEADER.. he WORKS HARD (like before training camp he was working with the QB trainer every day in the sun for 6 months leading up to the draft)!! He PLAYS HARD! He NEVER GIVES UP (like on Gruden QB camp.. John showed Johnny his favorite play.. when Johnnys RB fumbled the ball.. Johnny ran down the field, STRIPPED THE BALL from the defender... then another defender picked it up.. Johnny got up and continued to pursue and took him down! Thats heart!)
Every one of the things I wrote up there are true.. thats why he was worth a first rounder.. and that is why he is worth your time as a fan.
Ive been an avid Browns fan all my life.. I joined this forum for the first time back in 2006 when I was 17 yearls old. Im not a "Manzealot" Im a BROWNS FANATIC. I want what is best for this team MOVING FORWARD. I think that whats best.. is JOHNNY MANZIEL
Johnny almost every record there is. He put up POINTS.. hes FAST.. he is ACCURATE.. he has a GREAT ARM.. and he has excellent INSTINCTS.. he has a HIGH IQ... he is a LEADER.. he WORKS HARD (like before training camp he was working with the QB trainer every day in the sun for 6 months leading up to the draft)!! He PLAYS HARD! He NEVER GIVES UP...
Every one of the things I wrote up there are true.
Mostly what you wrote are subjective things that are true for you... not me... not at the Pro level anyway.
As for the couple objective things you list... Points? Sure. IQ? Maybe, if you buy the Wunderlich. But FAST? No...
Sorry, but 4.63 is not "FAST" in the NFL. LBs run 4.63 in the NFL. What he objectively is, however, is agile. He is also subjectively COMPETITVE... even hyper-competitive... which is what a number of your hand-waving "truths" boil down to, IMO. Channeled, COMPETITIVENESS is a very powerful trait for propelling excellence. Unchanneled, it's a recipe for disaster.
Unfortunately JM is also very IMMATURE and maturity is the key ingredient in controlling, or channeling, talent.
I am a skeptic (surprise). So far JM has done nothing as a Brown to earn my fan loyalty... moreover he hasn't yet earned my fan respect. That is our, JM's and my, first step. Earning my fan respect does not even require him to step on the field.
So far it been one-step forward (usually by saying the "right things"), followed by a "doing-something-thoughtlessly-stupid", one-step back.
Still stuck in neutral here... and waiting. apparently just like the Browns' Staff and FO.
Johnny is in a great situation, I agree. He doesn't need any help working like a professional, though. He's always worked hard and been a good teammate.
It would help if the media and crazy "fans" didn't follow him around like the pied piper, but Manziel sells. It's the price you pay for being a superstar. Johnny didn't ask for that, his play on the field made him an espn darling, and "Manziel news" has been beaten to death ever since.
Wow... hadn't heard this line of rationalization since Week 4 or so...
Have you checked his jersey sales lately?
Tim Couch ran the Air Raid.. Nick Foles.. Kevin Kolb..John Beck.. Case Keenum..Brandon Weeden..Geno Smith.. Max Hall..
Not the best track record I will admit
However.. I would also like to talk about Case Keenum.. EXTREMELY underrated in the NFL.. the kid put up #'s but is getting looked over in my opinion.. Hes pretty good
lol... Understate much?
I liked Case, too. Saw a few of his UH games and thought he had a shot at being a good Pro QB. He may still, but in his 8 starts for HOU he did not display the capability I would have expected. The pro game looked to fast for him.
Maybe it was a system issue? Maybe in Kelly's system in Philly he'd fare better, but then I think a lot of QBs would fair well in Kelly's system.
Then again... Is it as odd as it looks to think that Kelly's system might cure a case of the "too fasts"???
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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