Jonathan Paul Manziel
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Not recklessness, fearlessness. I admit, one can turn into the other, but I wouldn't call him reckless. He May always have such terrible off-field "incidents" as:
1. Going to cavs games and hanging out with Lebron.
2. Using his own money to go to places like Vegas.
3. Having pictures taken of him at those places.
4. Trying to get into his home when accosted by someone who recognizes him.
These horrible "incidents" will have no bearing on his success or failure.
But I'm sure the rest of the league is crying in their glasses of tea while reading the Bible when they hear about these terrible "incidents" Johnny is involved in.
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Not recklessness, fearlessness. I admit, one can turn into the other, but I wouldn't call him reckless. He May always have such terrible off-field "incidents" as:
1. Going to cavs games and hanging out with Lebron.
2. Using his own money to go to places like Vegas.
3. Having pictures taken of him at those places.
4. Trying to get into his home when accosted by someone who recognizes him.
These horrible "incidents" will have no bearing on his success or failure.
But I'm sure the rest of the league is crying in their glasses of tea while reading the Bible when they hear about these terrible "incidents" Johnny is involved in.
These horrible "incidents" will have no bearing on his success or failure.
You keep defending his activities, instead understand that "perception" is everything.
Whether they are horrible acts or not...and whether they have an ultimate bearing on his play or not......they create an image that a lot of people dont like.....it's that simple.......like I said above, he is "polarizing".....love him or hate him...
Now, what you should at least TRY to accept, is that GIVEN THE CHOICE, we'd prefer to have a QB who we "perceive" to be mature, likable and hardworking.
Doesn't mean we wont take him. But it's more fun to be a fan when you REALLY like the player and it's easier to get behind them when they are VISIBLY more into the community and the team, than themselves, their brand, trademarks, partying, hanging with celebs, etc........
So, compared to a Bernie, Hoyer, Brady or Manning.....Johnny comes off as a bit of an immature schmuck. And a lot of people would rather he didn't. Thats all.
And PLEASE.....NO NEED to give me the whole "Johnnys great Because" list AGAIN.....I get it, you disagree. I get it. really.
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Mudfly, agreed. I'm in the 80%, though some don't believe that. I am banging my head against a wall when neither of the 10%'ers will be convinced either way til Johnny hits the field.
No more, let's just beat the shit outta the Bills.
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He can't control people's perceptions, and he won't let that change his lifestyle. He is who he is, on the field and off.
Believe it or not, he is likeable and hardworking, but you rarely hear about that.
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I'm with you on Hoyer, he has exceeded all expectations and it should be his team the rest of the season, barring something crazy happening.
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Not recklessness, fearlessness. I admit, one can turn into the other, but I wouldn't call him reckless. He May always have such terrible off-field "incidents" as:
1. Going to cavs games and hanging out with Lebron.
2. Using his own money to go to places like Vegas.
3. Having pictures taken of him at those places.
4. Trying to get into his home when accosted by someone who recognizes him.
These horrible "incidents" will have no bearing on his success or failure.
But I'm sure the rest of the league is crying in their glasses of tea while reading the Bible when they hear about these terrible "incidents" Johnny is involved in.
Not recklessness, fearlessness. I admit, one can turn into the other, but I wouldn't call him reckless. He May always have such terrible off-field "incidents" as:
1. Going to cavs games and hanging out with Lebron.
2. Using his own money to go to places like Vegas.
3. Having pictures taken of him at those places.
4. Trying to get into his home when accosted by someone who recognizes him.
These horrible "incidents" will have no bearing on his success or failure.
But I'm sure the rest of the league is crying in their glasses of tea while reading the Bible when they hear about these terrible "incidents" Johnny is involved in.
Did anyone use the adjective "horrible" besides you?
It's called a "pattern of behavior".
While I know you'd prefer that use of JM's collegiate record be restricted to on-field performance, there were a few incidents back then as well.
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No, you call them "incidents". They are not that, either. They are overblown reactions to a guy living his life.
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I'm talking about since he was a brown. But I would expect you to bring that up since its 2 and a half years ago. Whatever, it proves my point even more. Even with this arrest, he went on to have a great two years at A&M.
Off-field pictures, trips to Vegas, etc, will have NOTHIMG to do with his success or failure in the NFL.
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At least I know what Im saying isnt falling on Deaf ears.
Im not saying Johnny is "Cant Miss".. There is no such thing.. not even Luck or Manning were "Cant Miss" prospects.
What I am trying to curb is people calling him a bust and saying he has no chance in the NFL before he even sets foot on the field.
Im guessing the raging against Manziel is all Hyperbole due to the neccesity of protecting the Home Town Hero who is winning us games.. I get it.. really I do.. we are winning and I am happy, and I thank Brian for all he has done. However I just cant help but feel due to some of the responses in this thread and others that for some reason.. SOME people.. WANT Johnny to fail. They WANT our first round draft pick who we traded up to get to fail.. why? BEcause they just dont like him. They dont like the way he plays, or the way he walks, talks, etc.. Which I can understand for some types of people.. but dont wish for him to fail. He wears Brown and Orange.. and as long as those are the colors he represents.. we should support him
At least I know what Im saying isnt falling on Deaf ears.
Im not saying Johnny is "Cant Miss".. There is no such thing.. not even Luck or Manning were "Cant Miss" prospects.
What I am trying to curb is people calling him a bust and saying he has no chance in the NFL before he even sets foot on the field.
I wasn't really calling him a bust.....at least that is not my intent. I merely pointed out that mathematically about 50% of the people in his same situation, i.e. first round QBs were historically busts. That is a concern for the Browns fans....as this team has contributed mightily to that stat with the likes of Quinn/Weeden/Phipps/Agannis/Garrett. (and I was not even counting Couch as a bust)
I am only hoping that they odds turn in our favor for once.
Im guessing the raging against Manziel is all Hyperbole due to the neccesity of protecting the Home Town Hero who is winning us games.. I get it.. really I do.. we are winning and I am happy, and I thank Brian for all he has done. However I just cant help but feel due to some of the responses in this thread and others that for some reason.. SOME people.. WANT Johnny to fail. They WANT our first round draft pick who we traded up to get to fail.. why? BEcause they just dont like him. They dont like the way he plays, or the way he walks, talks, etc.. Which I can understand for some types of people.. but dont wish for him to fail. He wears Brown and Orange.. and as long as those are the colors he represents.. we should support him
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I agree, for the most part, people on this site want Johnny to succeed. Undoubtedly, there are many who don't. Whether that's because they like hoyer or don't like Johnny, it's indisputable.
And I get it. Many Aggie fans were glad to see Johnny go. They were tired of the off-field stuff. But my answer to that is that he is the same person on and off the field. You don't respect him. He doesn't care. You don't want him going to Vegas on his own time, hurting nobody in the process, screw you. You have by far the better team and are going to pound his skinny ass, he is not phased and puts 600 yards on you.
Johnny is who he is. The "problems" he has off the field are the same traits that make great coaches hate playing against him on the field. His off-field actions will probably change as he gets older, but he is nowhere near the first guy who likes to have fun off the field and can still thrive on the field.
It won't be easy, and he will have struggles, but it took Hoyer 5 years to become a starter. It's been 8 months since Johnny became a Brown. Cut him some slack. What has he done off the field that's so bad??? Rape? Domestic violence? Drunk driving? Positive drug tests?
No. Commercials, pictures, some idiot accosting him at 2 am, a Vegas trip. Is that really so bad?
And btw, I'm not a young 'un. I just see greatness in Manziel and I can't wait to see him get on the field to prove me right (or wrong).
I agree, for the most part, people on this site want Johnny to succeed. Undoubtedly, there are many who don't. Whether that's because they like hoyer or don't like Johnny, it's indisputable.
Or, I think a lot are against Johnny not because they are against Johnny but because they are against the army of Johnny sycophants.
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Can Johnny run any type of offense or only the kind that has to be catered to him? Offensive coordinators come and go and bring their own schemes with them.
Per one of our Senior Ag arrivals, and one of the few that is still here, Sumlin scrapped his Offense to maximize JM's playground style.
At least I know what Im saying isnt falling on Deaf ears.
What I am trying to curb is people calling him a bust and saying he has no chance in the NFL before he even sets foot on the field.
Im guessing the raging against Manziel is all Hyperbole due to the neccesity of protecting the Home Town Hero who is winning us games.. I get it.. really I do.. we are winning and I am happy, and I thank Brian for all he has done. However I just cant help but feel due to some of the responses in this thread and others that for some reason.. SOME people.. WANT Johnny to fail. They WANT our first round draft pick who we traded up to get to fail.. why? BEcause they just dont like him. They dont like the way he plays, or the way he walks, talks, etc.. Which I can understand for some types of people.. but dont wish for him to fail. He wears Brown and Orange.. and as long as those are the colors he represents.. we should support him
Yup we read posts... what a concept for a forum...
Some do say "no chance", "wasted pick" and other things. I think the odds started at "not good", but there is a chance. It is dwindling though with every "incident".
- Charlie Frye was hometown. We cut him no slack once it was clear he did not have "it".
- Bernie was hometown... loved him to death, because he loved and wanted us... and he nearly took us to the promised land. It was tough to say good-bye... but for who he was... not where he was from.
- Sipe wasn't hometown, but we loved him just the same.
Johnny is who he is. The "problems" he has off the field are the same traits that make great coaches hate playing against him on the field. His off-field actions will probably change as he gets older, but he is nowhere near the first guy who likes to have fun off the field and can still thrive on the field.
How long do we have to wait?
I assume the common trait is recklessness... yes? Exactly why I did not want to draft him high and still believe the odds of his success at the Pro level are not good.
The way I put it through our Pre and Post draft JM debates is: Can you take away what makes JM risky without also taking away what makes him special?
I did not think so then. I do not think so now. Thanks for your support...
Per one of our Senior Ag arrivals, and one of the few that is still here, Sumlin scrapped his Offense to maximize JM's playground style.
Yup we read posts... what a concept for a forum...
Some do say "no chance", "wasted pick" and other things. I think the odds started at "not good", but there is a chance. It is dwindling though with every "incident".
- Charlie Frye was hometown. We cut him no slack once it was clear he did not have "it".
- Bernie was hometown... loved him to death, because he loved and wanted us... and he nearly took us to the promised land. It was tough to say good-bye... but for who he was... not where he was from.
- Sipe wasn't hometown, but we loved him just the same.
How long do we have to wait?
I assume the common trait is recklessness... yes? Exactly why I did not want to draft him high and still believe the odds of his success at the Pro level are not good.
The way I put it through our Pre and Post draft JM debates is: Can you take away what makes JM risky without also taking away what makes him special?
I did not think so then. I do not think so now. Thanks for your support...
See this is the kind of stuff im talking about "exactly why I did not want to draft him high and still believe the odds of his success at the Pro level are not good."... what is that? Johnny has the same odds as everyone else. Actaully.. his odds are better than most others due to his draft vstatus.. as there are more successful QBs drafted in the first round than any other round... Period.
Also to addres your Brian Hoyer comment.. c'mon.. do you really think if Brian Hoyer wasnt from Cleveland that he wouldnt have been pulled by now? Honestly? He never would have had had as much fan support if he wasnt from here... it has been made a very big deal. Yes his play backed it up.. but it wouldve been much EASIER for the staff to make a change if he wasnt.
Being a professional is NOT just working hard.. being a professional is precisely the daily habits [arrives early, leaves late] that are JFF's weakness.
weaknesses?
Johnny as said by the coaching staff is the epitome of a profesisonal in building. Hes in the playbook.. comes in early stays late gets extra reps in with the WRs.. he's done all that. o Im not sure where you are getting this from?
The only difference between him and Hoyer is Brian has a wife.. Johnny doesnt.. so when Johnny is out on the town.. Brian is home watching movies with his wife.
How does these 2 things affect football? Do you think Brian is at home breaking down film with his wife.. going over X's and O's? get real.. they all have free time.. just because Johnny spends his out and about doesnt make him any less of a professional
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http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/11/johnny_manziel_has_his_say_abo.html
BEREA, Ohio -- Browns quarterback Johnny Manziel gave his version of the fight story from Friday night, stressing that he was accosted by a "very intoxicated, very aggressive person'' who was "putting his hands on'' Manziel and "toying'' with him.
Here are few excerpts:
"My mom was in town over the course of this past week, ended up going to dinner with my mother and my roommate. As I got back to my apartment (at The 9) later that night, my apartment is located in the lobby of a hotel as well, and as I was waiting for an elevator, I was approached by what has been made out to be a fan.
"And at this point in the night this was a very intoxicated, very aggressive person that approached me in the lobby, putting his hands on me, kind of toying with me as I got back, just kind of trying to kind my own business and get upstairs to my room.
"As this man kept attempting to come at me, just being extremely aggressive, and as we tried to coax him into getting into his elevator and going on about the night, the guy got very aggressive and luckily for us....security was able to get things under wraps.
"(He) came at my roommate. It all happened very fast...There was no entourage with me. I was with one other person and my mother was upstairs, so it's about as much entourage as you get being with my mom.
"As it escalated and it got a little out of control, security got it under wraps and I was able to get up into my room.''
He said it was a situation that "tried to be averted at all costs and one that unfortunately (I was) not able to really get away from.''
Manziel's face showed no signs that someone "smashed him in the face, smashed him, smashed him'' as Sandusky native Chris Gonos, the man who first approached Manziel, described to clevescene.com.
Manziel wouldn't say if he was hit or if he threw punches. Gonos told clevescene.com that Manziel "sucker-punched'' his brother. Manziel said it was more about what was happening to his roommate, Dana Kirk. He declined to elaborate on the details of the scuffle.
He said neither he nor Kirk plans to press charges and that the security video would corroborate his version of the story.
More to come soon on Manziel's version of events.
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Browns board becoming TMZ.
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That makes me feel even better about it. Tell em how it is Johnny!
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Good to hear his side.
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Better to just see the video and be done with it.
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He can't control people's perceptions, and he won't let that change his lifestyle. He is who he is, on the field and off.
Believe it or not, he is likeable and hardworking, but you rarely hear about that.
He can't control people's perceptions, and he won't let that change his lifestyle. He is who he is, on the field and off.
Believe it or not, he is likeable and hardworking, but you rarely hear about that.
Well, before this likable and hard working guy showed up for training camp in August- he was acting like a drunken sailor with a big wad of cash on shore leave. Sorry if that's the perception a lot of Browns fans got.
I'm talking about since he was a brown. But I would expect you to bring that up since its 2 and a half years ago. Whatever, it proves my point even more. Even with this arrest, he went on to have a great two years at A&M.
Off-field pictures, trips to Vegas, etc, will have NOTHING to do with his success or failure in the NFL.
Some guys can pull that off- like Ken Stabler, Joe Namath, and Charles Barkley. That would be AFTER they've made a name for themselves in the pros- not before. I'm not going to rehash all the bozo stuff he pulled post draft, pre training camp- it's been beaten to death, save one example. Hell, Mike Vick got thrown in jail and got a pass after he cleaned up his act. What did Agasse's commercial say "Image is Everything"? Sorry if JFF's off-field "image" needs some cleaning up. You don't have to be a saint- but having a drunk youtube flashing the "money phone" didn't exactly endear you to a lot of fans. As Tour said- immaturity.
So if Manziel wants to flip off the rest of the world- "F-you this is who I am", well it's a two way street. Plenty of the rest of the world is saying "F-you we don't like who you are.".
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