Freddie fired

SdBacker80

@hoorta said:

If you wanted to see what a real pass rush looks like- I caught some of the 49ers Seahawks game....

The Niners spent a lot of premium picks on their dline. We can certainly do that too. They have found young competent talent with their back 7 and they have a lot of skilled guys that are on rookie deals.

eventually they will all get paid and they will be back to square one especially with the dline

Bigalow80

I'm going to put my opinion out there.

Please NO to Urban Meyer. That's a bad idea just waiting to happen. I'm very skeptical about Josh McDaniels. I would have loved to have brought in Rivera and kept the rest of the staff in tact, however, that does not seem like it is going to happen this time. This team needs a leader and someone who will hold them responsible. I'm not sure McDaniels can do that. I think front office people like him more than players and other coaches around the league. McCarthy would be interesting but I'm nervous he is going to come in and clean house. Does a college coach count? Is it Lincoln Riley or bust? I wonder how that would go over in the locker room. Rhule? The browns had Matt Campbell of ISU really high on their list last year. Can any of them come in and build a culture of winning?

One bit I keep reading about is the increased role of Depodesta and how his power may grow within the front office. I'm curious to see how this will play out. I know part of the reason Adam Berry left and went to Philadelphia (I hear he is in the running for the Jacksonville GM job) is because Dorsey completely skewed the interview process to Freddie. He was not thrilled about that and jumped went Philly offered. I wonder if Dorsey is going to be much more handcuffed this time around. Honestly, I hope so. His flaws which were his downfall in KC, maybe showing here in Cleveland. Great talent evaluator but does not know how to build a "team", hard to work with, keeps everything to himself, his way or the highway type ...Could all just be speculating but he does need to be held accountable for this year.

Tour2ma

@orion said:

I think they wanted possible HC candidates to know our situation asap.

So much so that if you believe La Canfora we were contacting candidates before Freddie knew he was gone.

How the hell is that display of a total lack of respect supposed to attract the best talent?

" CBS Sports NFL Insiders Jason La Canfora reported that the team had been sending out feelers and making calls to potential coaching candidates over the past few days, which definitely wasn't a good sign for Kitchens, who is now out of a job."

@kvoethe said:

No one wants the washington job...owner is worse than jerrah in dallas. Meddling non stop.

That had been the case historically... not so much since they revamped the FO with Bruce Allen filling the role of Team President. Jay Gruden got 5+ years... most of them spent in relative peace.

Tour2ma

10 hours ago, runyon27 said:

... as far as the trade goes, its obvious they thought Corbett could fill that position. he didn't, the end result is keeping Zeitler wouldn't have changed the outcome to the season, from my perspective better coaching would overcome that.

How could a GM be so out of touch with a pick's progress? It isn't as if Corbett was a close miss...

As for the impact of having Zeitler in 2019... you don't know what it was and neither do I, but it is hard for me to believe that the impact was nil.

3 hours ago, Ibleedbrown said:

I’m largely in favor of continuity, so l’d like to see Dorsey stay. Any new GM is going to restart that whole “his guys” process, which is just a hassle.

But what do those "FO guys" really impact compared to changing the HC, which usually means the complete turnover of the coaching staff.

Tour2ma

@texasag1969 said:

Well I'm wondering why Corbett did not work out here, got traded for a 5th round pick and is now the starting LG for the Rams?

Same reason Cam was traded for and started in KC... because LAR is desperate for OL due to injury. Come TC 2020 he'll be a 2nd teamer at best.

As for the price? Cheap compared to the R3 projections I saw for him... more so considering it was a 2021 pick and is thus discounted a round.

Tour2ma

[7:03 a.m. ET]: Ron Rivera expected to be named new Redskins head coach
[8:01 a.m. ET]: Panthers request permission
Ian Rapoport@RapSheet
The #Panthers have submitted a request for #Chiefs OC Eric Bieniemy, sources say. The plan is to interview him for their head coach opening this week. A strong candidate who Andy Reid has publicly supported as very ready.
Dec 30, 2019 2.1K 85View on X
to interview Chiefs offensive coordinator Eric Bieniemy, per Ian Rapoport of NFL Network
[8:36 a.m. ET]: Browns request permission
Adam Schefter@AdamSchefter
Cleveland Browns requested permission to interview Patriots’ OC Josh McDaniels for their head-coaching vacancy, per source. Panthers also expected to request interview.
Dec 30, 2019 6.1K 450View on X
to interview Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels, Panthers expected to seek permission as well, per Adam Schefter of ESPN
[9:10 a.m. ET]: Pat Shurmur fired by Giants after compiling 9-23 record in two seasons.

Tim Couch Pulls Out

Baker Mayfield
Nick Chubb
Jarvis Landry
Odell Beckham Jr.
Denzel Ward
Greedy Williams
Damarious Randall

But yes, let's get mad and call for John Dorsey's head because Genard Avery, a dude named Carl and Austin whatever the fuck his name is aren't here.

tiamat63

Bieniemy was a name I was hoping the Browns would take a long look at last year. Sucks they feel so dead set on a re-tread.

Ibleedbrown

@tour2ma said:

But what do those "FO guys" really impact compared to changing the HC, which usually means the complete turnover of the coaching staff.

Other than the players themselves? I guess not much, but that can be a big part of it where over time the new GM feels inclined to supplant much of the roster with “his guys”.

And honestly, l don’t really think that’s as big as a deal as many make it out to be. Any smart GM should go with the best players they can get. But other variables convolute it all, like any given player may have been a good fit with one coach and his scheme, but maybe not another coaches’ scheme. I almost think Avery was a casualty of this.

It’s just decision makers being forced to adapt to each other, and it takes time and maybe a little trial and error. Ownership is a part of this mix too, so you got 3 groups (ownership, GM and FO, and the coaches) who all have to get on the same page with one another, so by keeping 2 of the 3 in tact at least it’s theoretically 2 groups that are already on the same page and they just gotta get the coaches into the same book.

SdBacker80

The new HCs D coordinator selection is just as important.

The G Will Parking your safety in Parma didn’t work. And this Wilks scheme is a total disaster as well.

And if we go 3-4 we may have to spend a draft getting equipped to play it.

LBC mike

We should run a hybrid front with our players.

ATOM

@lbc-mike said:

We should run a hybrid front with our players.

like the ufo

tiamat63

People still getting hung up on the 34 43 44 cliche'.

hoorta · Dec 30, 2019 2.1K 85View on X

@tour2ma said:

[7:03 a.m. ET]: Ron Rivera expected to be named new Redskins head coach

[8:01 a.m. ET]: Panthers request permission to interview Chiefs offensive coordinator Eric Bieniemy, per Ian Rapoport of NFL Network

[8:36 a.m. ET]: Browns request permission to interview Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels, Panthers expected to seek permission as well, per Adam Schefter of ESPN

[9:10 a.m. ET]: Pat Shurmur fired by Giants after compiling 9-23 record in two seasons.

My Redskins fan mentioned Washington had been talking to Rivera for weeks. Also, Bruce Allen might be out as GM.

So, old Shur-loss is another casualty on Black Monday. Start a poll who's worse as a HC, Freddie or Pat?

@bigalow80 said:

I'm going to put my opinion out there.

Please NO to Urban Meyer. That's a bad idea just waiting to happen. I'm very skeptical about Josh McDaniels. I would have loved to have brought in Rivera and kept the rest of the staff in tact, however, that does not seem like it is going to happen this time. This team needs a leader and someone who will hold them responsible. I'm not sure McDaniels can do that. I think front office people like him more than players and other coaches around the league. McCarthy would be interesting but I'm nervous he is going to come in and clean house. Does a college coach count? Is it Lincoln Riley or bust? I wonder how that would go over in the locker room. Rhule? The browns had Matt Campbell of ISU really high on their list last year. Can any of them come in and build a culture of winning?

I've mentioned elsewhere McCarthy already has his potential OC and DC in place.... It would be a total house cleaning. Not that I was overly impressed with Wilkes. No opinion on Monken, as Freddie effectively handcuffed and muzzled him. That said, I hope we can keep Stump Mitchell around as running back coach. Chubb loves and respects him.

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@tiamat63 said:

People still getting hung up on the 34 43 44 cliche'.

For real.

43/34 doesn't matter. The biggest difference in defensive philosophies is gap responsibility, not front alignment. 43/34 doesn't matter, it's just something fans get hung up on.

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@hoorta said:

My Redskins fan mentioned Washington had been talking to Rivera for weeks. Also, Bruce Allen might be out as GM.

So, old Shur-loss is another casualty on Black Monday. Start a poll who's worse as a HC, Freddie or Pat?

I've mentioned elsewhere McCarthy already has his potential OC and DC in place.... It would be a total house cleaning. Not that I was overly impressed with Wilkes. No opinion on Monken, as Freddie effectively handcuffed and muzzled him. That said, I hope we can keep Stump Mitchell around as running back coach. Chubb loves and respects him.

Allen is out entirely. Rivera is expected to sign soon and the rumor is he would bring Wilks in as DC, which is great news for us.

I think it's a whole house cleaning regardless of who we hire. Defensively, everyone will (and definitely should) be let go. Offensively, the only way I see Monken staying is if we hire a coach who's going to implement an Air Raid-inspired offense, but that doesn't seem likely. Adam Henry might be safe just because I expect Odell and Jarvis to go to bat for him.

Go Lers

These are just facts, do with them what you will...

This is my attempt to bring to light the glaring (and never discussed) problem that makes the Cleveland Browns the perennial butt of jokes. I'm going to compare the first 2 seasons of some legendary NFL coaches with Browns head coaches and the "churn and burn" mentality. Oh, and I'm only doing this from 1999 to present because this is a completely different franchise from the one that Modell stole from Cleveland back in the day. Sorry, not sorry.

The average tenure of a Cleveland Browns head coach is just 1.9 seasons (Please pause to let that sink in). Since that's nearly 2 full seasons I'll give the the records of other legendary head coaches' first 2 seasons to show why teams shouldn't give up on coaches so quickly. I'll also list their championship resume to really emphasize the point:

Bill Belichick:

First 2 Seasons as Patriots HC: 5-11 in 2000, 11-5 in 2001
6 Super Bowl victories

Chuck Noll:

First 2 Seasons as Steelers HC: 1-13 in 1969, 5-9 in 1970
4 Super Bowl victories

Bill Walsh:

First 2 seasons as 49ers HC: 2-14 in 1979, 6-10 in 1980
3 Super Bowl victories

Jimmy Johnson:

First 2 seasons as Cowboys HC: 1-15 in 1989, 7-9 in 1990
2 Super Bowl victories

You get the idea. Had these teams bailed on their head coaches after one season (like Cleveland so often does) the trophy cases in New England, Pittsburgh, San Francisco, and Dallas would look A LOT different today. Maybe this is an extreme comparison but my point is that these organizations didn't just stick with these guys, they actually f&@#ing build something that could last!!!

The point I'm trying to get across is the Browns need to stick with head coaches long enough to have a winning system and culture!

Still don't believe me?!? This will blow your mind . . . There have only been TWO Browns coaches that made it a full 3 seasons as the head coach. And ya know what they did in their third season? I'll tell ya what they did!! 9-7 record and playoff appearance in 2002, 10-6 record and nearly missed playoffs in 2007 (weird year). Are you sensing a theme yet?? New England has been doing this for 2 decades with great success, Pittsburgh has only had 3 coaches since mankind first walked on the moon they're alright.

Jimmy Haslam, if you're reading this (which I doubt) please, Please, PLEASE stick with a coach long enough to BUILD A SYSTEM, stop this endless rotation of quarterbacks and coordinators, and stop embarrassing Cleveland's football legacy.

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk...

hoorta

My thoughts on Freddie- a decent good guy who gave it 110%, except his 110% effort was about 50% of what's required of a good\great NFL coach. The Cleveland com poll fan opinion is about 90% say it was time to go. As to coaching blunders-

1) Totaled by the Titans, 2) Rammed by the Rams (who were suffering a SB hangover), 3) sent out to sea by the Seahawks, 4) Shuffle passed off by the Patriots, 5) Bucked by a Broncos practice squad QB, 6) Ducked by a Steelers Duck and mash unit, 7) Disastered in the Desert, 8- Run over by the Ravens, 9) Bungled by the Bengals with a comatose performance that sent Freddie packing.

You have to wonder how many of those games could have turned out differently with a little more luck and better coaching. Four out of nine gets the Browns in the playoffs....

And what was it with the Njoku thing? And a few other personnel head scratchers.....

ATOM

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Allen is out entirely. Rivera is expected to sign soon and the rumor is he would bring Wilks in as DC, which is great news for us.

I think it's a whole house cleaning regardless of who we hire. Defensively, everyone will (and definitely should) be let go. Offensively, the only way I see Monken staying is if we hire a coach who's going to implement an Air Raid-inspired offense, but that doesn't seem likely. Adam Henry might be safe just because I expect Odell and Jarvis to go to bat for him.

st coach should also stay

Tour2ma

@ibleedbrown said:

Any smart GM should go with the best players they can get.

That's the key... smart overcoming ego.

@hoorta said:

Bruce Allen might be out as GM.

President... but regardless the word is he's gone. While he moved Snyder a step away form the day-to-day.... a huge plus... apparently it turned out that Allen was a flaming ass in his own right.