Take Tim Couch out and put in Derek Anderson
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Sev, Mangini picked Quinn. Not the fan base.
Yell at him.
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Greythan Mangini has just been fired from one head coach job in the NFL.... two firings is pretty much terminal for his career...... He cant be blamed for putting in Quinn no matter how bad he plays BUT he can be blamed for Playing DA over him.....
Fans still buy tickets and apparal...... the NFL is still an entertainment business......
The fan base here wants what it wants regardless of what may make sense..... The mob still has influence in terms of pr and sales........
Its a Win win for Mangini's personal career if he starts Quinn where IF he started DA he was totally exposed to criticisms and ridicule based upon the unknown qualitative factor of NOT playing a high draft pick fans embraced apparal selling QB.
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its not 2 games but 5 and 4 in a row with the same results and defenses.... The tape of playing tight is out now and Quinn's noodle arm has been exposed making us a one dimensional team.
This season is not over and our defense looks improved, jamal still has some gas and our oline is not as bad as you quinn excuse makers are trying to imply it is.
Boy, if it is arm strength, than JaMarcus Russell must have a pretty week arm too. Cause he is looking just like Quinn through 2 weeks.
Folks, Quinn has shown he has the arm to make all the throws. Arm strength is not the issue at QB. Not getting through reads quick enough, not trusting reads, wrong reads, WR not getting separation, poor protection from the right side of the line, and zero consistancy running the ball are the issue (note the # of issues that would be on Quinn). If the issue was arm strength, Quinn would never have won the job in camp.
Masters said:
If the issue was arm strength, Quinn would never have won the job in camp.Not so sure about that... Mangini is playing the cards dealt to him. Quinn showed just enough off-season to win the coach's confidence....because, in reality, everyone knew pretty boy was going to have to get his shot. We traded for him and payed him alot of money...no matter who the coach is now...or tommorrow. At the time, the franchise was injected with some hope (heck our Quinn/Thomas draft was given all A's and A-'s)...but now, it doesnt look so good.
He sucks....but hes kinda cute and he has nice hair.
Bermeck (nice effort in Denver BQ....you aint got it !!!!)
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Zombo said:
To be fair, I'm all for giving Quinn one more start for continuity's sake.But if it is Charlie Quinn again, I'm ready to pull the plug on him for now, for the main reason being that I'm not ready to concede the season.
If we wait until we are 0-8, then what is the use us going to Anderson then?
Mangini himself said the competition was "very close" and if CQ can't get things going in three starts then I think you have to give the bigger-armed, quicker-release guy a shot, hope that he has cleaned up some of his inconsistencies and that the team will rally around him not unlike 07 and give us some hope for the rest of the year.
I see a lot of people have written off the season already, I'm not one of them. Quinn needs to get us untracked this week or we need to go to Anderson to get things rolling. If he does no better and we are 0-8 anyway, then, sure play Quinn the last 8 games, I don't care, at that point you are just evaluating for 2010.
Zombo
Z- I'm glad to see you still have hope about this season- unfortunately, I don't. I took a long hard look at the replay of the game, and here's what I came up with. I'll have to agree with the Quinn bashers that BQ might not be the answer. He has a long way to go to get up to the elite qb drop + deliver the ball almost instantly category. I charted the number of times Quinn and Orton got seriously pressured yesterday, and to my surprise, Quinn overall actually got less heat than Orton. However, that doesn't take into account what's killing us- the times we have a defensive breakdown, it's for huge plays. In my book, Quinn gets the majority of the season to see if he can improve. If not, it's hello Sam Bradford or Colt McCoy next year. Got a feeling we're going to stink bad enough this year that one or the other will surely be there when we draft in '10. I doubt Mangini & crew are going to throw away their careers wasting yet another season to find out if Anderson will finally "get it". Unlike Jeff George and Vinnie Testaverde, Anderson wasn't a first round pick, so he might get one more shot towards the end of the season, if Quinn totally bombs.
On some of those Denver TD runs, there was a hole big enough to drive a truck through, and add in lousy tackling to boot. We're not going to win consistently until the run D gets fixed, and that's not going to happen this year. There's a glaring need for a mean-ass run stuffing LB, and Kam Wimbley ain't it. The secondary did an overall OK job, but they can't cover Stokley and Marshall all day, if the blitz (and unfortunately we still have to blitz to get pressure on the QB) doesn't get there in time.
Offensively, the o-line looked like crap. I'm not buying the run game looks lousy because teams are stuffing the box because Quinn can't throw the ball downfield. I didn't chart his throws in that regard, but IMHO BQ went 20+ yards plenty enough times to keep the D honest. You want bashing? Lewis isn't a feature back anymore. Period. On the rare occasions there were decent holes that a guy like Peterson would have broken for long gains, Lewis got stopped after 5-10 yards, because he's just too freaking slow. Where's our #2 wr, while were at it? It's Cribbs? Really?
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So you're Mangini, going to a job interview with a team that has a QB situation that's up in the air and an owner that basically let it be known who his pick for QB is...
You're throwing up on the way to the interview because you know you are going to have to throw yourself under the bus and commit to giving a specific QB, that you may not be sure about, the first best shot....
So you have a "competition", and if it's close you give that QB the benefit of the doubt and go with him.... but does that mean you stick with him forever when you've got a guy sitting on the bench who was mismanaged for a couple years and has potential to be amazing if you can tame a couple of his problems?
My guess is, if BQ goes another 2 games without putting together meaningful drives there's a very good chance Mangini will go to Lerner and say they need to shake things up.
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Possibly D&S. Possibly.
However, I think a head coach's clearest motivation is winning. If Mangini felt DA's ceiling was sufficient to warrant starting, I think he'd have started him. As distant as Lerner is to this thing, you really think he mandated Quinn to start?
Browns fans are insanely loyal. The franchise's value wasn't going to plummet if BQ wasn't the starter. We want a winner. Hell, you see all the wistful thinking back to the 80's and 60's (on back).
I'm not buying it. Is it possible? Sure. Is it probable? Nope.
Sev's math on the topic is beautiful. Yup, the most successful coaches have a history of playing fan favorites.
Look at the school of coaching that Mangini comes from. Did his mentor play the fan favorite? Ask Kosar and Bledsoe.
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So you're Mangini, going to a job interview with a team that has a QB situation that's up in the air and an owner that basically let it be known who his pick for QB is...
You're throwing up on the way to the interview because you know you are going to have to throw yourself under the bus and commit to giving a specific QB, that you may not be sure about, the first best shot....
So you have a "competition", and if it's close you give that QB the benefit of the doubt and go with him.... but does that mean you stick with him forever when you've got a guy sitting on the bench who was mismanaged for a couple years and has potential to be amazing if you can tame a couple of his problems?
My guess is, if BQ goes another 2 games without putting together meaningful drives there's a very good chance Mangini will go to Lerner and say they need to shake things up.
and has potential to be amazing if you can tame a couple of his problems?
D.Anderson potential to be "amazing" ?????? guys.... he's Derek Anderson...thats all he will ever be.
True ... Mangini will have to play him. The only question is when. Its really soaking in ----BQ is horrible...it doesnt matter what the coach/GM might be thinking at this point.... settle in for a long... long... long season.
We cant run, we cant pass, and for good measure we cant play defense.... should be a fun trip to Baltimore.
Bermeck (message to NFL from the Brownies: .... get ready to pad your stats !)
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Greythan Mangini has just been fired from one head coach job in the NFL.... two firings is pretty much terminal for his career...... He cant be blamed for putting in Quinn no matter how bad he plays BUT he can be blamed for Playing DA over him.....
Fans still buy tickets and apparal...... the NFL is still an entertainment business......
The fan base here wants what it wants regardless of what may make sense..... The mob still has influence in terms of pr and sales........
Its a Win win for Mangini's personal career if he starts Quinn where IF he started DA he was totally exposed to criticisms and ridicule based upon the unknown qualitative factor of NOT playing a high draft pick fans embraced apparal selling QB.
Greythan Mangini has just been fired from one head coach job in the NFL.... two firings is pretty much terminal for his career...... He cant be blamed for putting in Quinn no matter how bad he plays BUT he can be blamed for Playing DA over him.....
Fans still buy tickets and apparal...... the NFL is still an entertainment business......
The fan base here wants what it wants regardless of what may make sense..... The mob still has influence in terms of pr and sales........
Its a Win win for Mangini's personal career if he starts Quinn where IF he started DA he was totally exposed to criticisms and ridicule based upon the unknown qualitative factor of NOT playing a high draft pick fans embraced apparal selling QB.
It is not a win/win if Mangini later inserts DA and he does substantially better than Quinn. That same mob you speak of will turn on him then too.
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Good discussion here today all ... just minor bickering but for the most part we've all came together knowing our common goal is to insert some talent into this team.
The DA & BQ sides are zero'ing in on a common goal and it might be for bad reasons (poor play from both), but after all we went through last week as a Browns Family on here, this is good stuff.
"Uncle Lums, light the grill, I think it's time to for the picnik!"
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Greythan Math? this is not about math but job and career decisions.... More about personal risk assessment..
IF he think the two are close in practice scenarios than he would be a fool not to default toward quinn because there is no inherent risk to his own job. Howeve IF he picked DA all of the risk of that decision would sit solely without any recourse on him
The Mob would not turn on Mangini IF DA did better after he was inserted..
The reasoning would be the same.... We did not know what the first round draft pick had and Mangini Wisely wanted to see so he could chart a direction.... He would not be crucified for that only IF he play DA as the starter over Quinn immediately because of the What if scenario on Quinn.... The same fans would be screaming about having to see what the first rounder was media hyped and draft status was supposed to be.
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Good discussion here today all ... just minor bickering but for the most part we've all came together knowing our common goal is to insert some talent into this team.
The DA & BQ sides are zero'ing in on a common goal and it might be for bad reasons (poor play from both), but after all we went through last week as a Browns Family on here, this is good stuff.
"Uncle Lums, light the grill, I think it's time to for the picnik!"
Good discussion here today all ... just minor bickering but for the most part we've all came together knowing our common goal is to insert some talent into this team.
The DA & BQ sides are zero'ing in on a common goal and it might be for bad reasons (poor play from both), but after all we went through last week as a Browns Family on here, this is good stuff.
"Uncle Lums, light the grill, I think it's time to for the picnik!"
As always...thanks for keeping the doors OPEN.
Bermeck (always good to suck up to a MOD/ADMIN...you never know when your going to go "postal")
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Greythan Math? this is not about math but job and career decisions.... More about personal risk assessment..
IF he think the two are close in practice scenarios than he would be a fool not to default toward quinn because there is no inherent risk to his own job. Howeve IF he picked DA all of the risk of that decision would sit solely without any recourse on him
The Mob would not turn on Mangini IF DA did better after he was inserted..
The reasoning would be the same.... We did not know what the first round draft pick had and Mangini Wisely wanted to see so he could chart a direction.... He would not be crucified for that only IF he play DA as the starter over Quinn immediately because of the What if scenario on Quinn.... The same fans would be screaming about having to see what the first rounder was media hyped and draft status was supposed to be.
Greythan Math? this is not about math but job and career decisions.... More about personal risk assessment..
IF he think the two are close in practice scenarios than he would be a fool not to default toward quinn because there is no inherent risk to his own job. Howeve IF he picked DA all of the risk of that decision would sit solely without any recourse on him
The Mob would not turn on Mangini IF DA did better after he was inserted..
The reasoning would be the same.... We did not know what the first round draft pick had and Mangini Wisely wanted to see so he could chart a direction.... He would not be crucified for that only IF he play DA as the starter over Quinn immediately because of the What if scenario on Quinn.... The same fans would be screaming about having to see what the first rounder was media hyped and draft status was supposed to be.
Sorry, but fans will go mob with the following:
1. How could you not see DA was so much better than Quinn in practice/camp? He's a freakin NFL coach and he couldn't see that.
2. We just wasted and lost games because Mangini couldn't see how much better DA was than Quinn.
There was zero win/win for Mangini in this scenario other than if both don't pan out to be legit NFL starters. Because that is the only place where Mangini can throw his hands up and go not my guys.
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So Sev you make my point yourself: there's no way Mangini starts Quinn unless they were at least "close". What does that say about DA based on your blasting of mr. noodle arm?
Face it, there's very little evidence based on professional talent evaluators (GM's and coaches) that would indicate DA is the solution.
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More like occasionally brilliant, mostly bad. You apparently haven't watched his last 18-20 games, have you?
yes, he atleast scored touchdowns.
yes, he atleast scored touchdowns.
And threw a lot more INTs that lead to opposing scores. As its been pointed out, in 6 or so of his 9 starts in 2008 the Browns scored 11 or LESS. Doesn't seem too much different than what we have now.
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@jadbf said:
Or maybe we can shut it down in anniversary of the 4INTs DA threw against Cincy in 2007?Wait we have to wait till december for taht one sorry.
But it least it coincides with the anniversary he threw 4 INTS against a bad Tampa Bay team. Can celebrate both on the same day.
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Zombo said:
To be fair, I'm all for giving Quinn one more start for continuity's sake.But if it is Charlie Quinn again, I'm ready to pull the plug on him for now, for the main reason being that I'm not ready to concede the season.
If we wait until we are 0-8, then what is the use us going to Anderson then?
Mangini himself said the competition was "very close" and if CQ can't get things going in three starts then I think you have to give the bigger-armed, quicker-release guy a shot, hope that he has cleaned up some of his inconsistencies and that the team will rally around him not unlike 07 and give us some hope for the rest of the year.
I see a lot of people have written off the season already, I'm not one of them. Quinn needs to get us untracked this week or we need to go to Anderson to get things rolling. If he does no better and we are 0-8 anyway, then, sure play Quinn the last 8 games, I don't care, at that point you are just evaluating for 2010.
Zombo
IF DA gets in there the season is already conceded. We already know he CAN'T perform under pressure or if the playoffs are on the line.
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Zombo said:
To be fair, I'm all for giving Quinn one more start for continuity's sake.But if it is Charlie Quinn again, I'm ready to pull the plug on him for now, for the main reason being that I'm not ready to concede the season.
If we wait until we are 0-8, then what is the use us going to Anderson then?
Mangini himself said the competition was "very close" and if CQ can't get things going in three starts then I think you have to give the bigger-armed, quicker-release guy a shot, hope that he has cleaned up some of his inconsistencies and that the team will rally around him not unlike 07 and give us some hope for the rest of the year.
I see a lot of people have written off the season already, I'm not one of them. Quinn needs to get us untracked this week or we need to go to Anderson to get things rolling. If he does no better and we are 0-8 anyway, then, sure play Quinn the last 8 games, I don't care, at that point you are just evaluating for 2010.
Zombo
IF DA gets in there the season is already conceded. We already know he CAN'T perform under pressure or if the playoffs are on the line.
IF DA gets in there the season is already conceded. We already know he CAN'T perform under pressure or if the playoffs are on the line.
and you think we're going to the playoffs? or have any pressure games? the season is conceded now, so i'd ask for a better excuse.
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Zombo said:
To be fair, I'm all for giving Quinn one more start for continuity's sake.But if it is Charlie Quinn again, I'm ready to pull the plug on him for now, for the main reason being that I'm not ready to concede the season.
If we wait until we are 0-8, then what is the use us going to Anderson then?
Mangini himself said the competition was "very close" and if CQ can't get things going in three starts then I think you have to give the bigger-armed, quicker-release guy a shot, hope that he has cleaned up some of his inconsistencies and that the team will rally around him not unlike 07 and give us some hope for the rest of the year.
I see a lot of people have written off the season already, I'm not one of them. Quinn needs to get us untracked this week or we need to go to Anderson to get things rolling. If he does no better and we are 0-8 anyway, then, sure play Quinn the last 8 games, I don't care, at that point you are just evaluating for 2010.
Zombo
IF DA gets in there the season is already conceded. We already know he CAN'T perform under pressure or if the playoffs are on the line.
IF DA gets in there the season is already conceded. We already know he CAN'T perform under pressure or if the playoffs are on the line.
Thank-god the playoffs were on the line. After that first half of Game #1 in 2007, the season was as lost as it is today after Game #2.
To be able to point to the blocked field goal in Oakland or the 4-INT's when we decided to try and fool'em by passing in high winds in Cincy, or a last second ruling that Winslow was not-in in Arizona ... was exciting to say the least. Kind of like hanging onto the edge of your seat and eager to see one of our Receivers attempt to break 3-4 tackles on 3rd-n-7 for the first down yesterday.
Yes you Quinn backers remember this? Keep basing your projections for quinn from this guy.
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