Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! And wait just a minute! DawginiT, you say that “Sanchez and Leinart were NEVER projected to be elite quartebacks.” NEVER? NEVER? NEVER? Just thought I would drop in some little goodies to prove you wrong.

Comments re: Leinert -- “One of the most NFL-ready prospects to ever enter the draft.” “Solid NFL arm strength and terrific accuracy. Very refined throwing mechanics. Perfect size for an NFL quarterback.” “The kind of guy teams want as ‘the face of the franchise’." “All things considered, Matt Leinart is an elite-level quarterback prospect.” [Emphasis mine]

Comments about Sanchez. While the case for Sanche is not as cut and dried as the case for Leinert, it is obvious that the Jets considered him pretty elite,

“The Jets were smitten [with Mark Sanchez]. The trouble was, other teams were [also] smitten with Sanchez In exchange for the fifth pick [from Cleveland], the Jets gave up the 17th pick, their second-round selection and three players: defensive end Kenyon Coleman, safety Abram Elam and quarterback Brett Ratliff. ,,,, “With Mark, I think he’s a special guy,” Ryan said.

“Sanchez was considered by some to be an even greater talent than Georgia's Matthew Stafford,”

“Physically, he has everything NFL teams covet in a QB prospect.”

“Some say he might be the best quarterback prospect in this draft, though it may not mean he’d be selected before Stafford.

“BEST PICK: Southern Cal QB Mark Sanchez seems to have all the tools.”

Use Hardesty as

1) trade bait

2) part of a package of Browns traded

3) as a "player to be named later"

4) as a commercial for the team's orthopedic surgeon

5) as a rb on the trainers' flag football team

6) and finally, if all else fails, let him be the back-up for Hillis. (Coach will really need to be careful where and when he chooses to play Hardesty. He only has one play per season in him and we need it to be a doozie!)

Jackson had better learn to be the backup to Hillis or the second back in the backfield with Hillis, because that is where he will be most needed.

There were a lot of people on this site who wanted the Browns to select Clausen. Remember him? The ONE who had experience in a pro-type offense? He had played under a former professional coach? Where are all those guys who were singing Clausen's praises now?

McCoy and Bradford are the top two qb's out of that draft.

I also find it interesting that some of you folks continue to blast McCoy because of his inability to complete the national championship game, but you sing Bradford's praises when he didn't return to complete the season when he had the same type of injury McCoy did. Bradford was, however. smart to look forward to his pro career and not take anymore chances. McCoy would have been foolish to have tried to come back.

I agree with the previous poster who said it will be fun to see McCoy and Bradford match up against each other again.

Follow the link on this story and look at the other stories this guy has written. First, the nature of his series is by definition negative. He blasts Cassell, Flacco, Chris Johnson, and Crabtree among others. He is so far out in space that I don't think we can take seriously anything he says.

I saw where Shurmer said that the WCO (at least his version) is a two back offense. He went on to say that Hillis may play fullbsck when Hardesty and Hillis are in the backfield at the same time because Hillis is big enough to be a lead blocker for Hardesty. I'm not fully sure what I expected the role of the fullback to be in a two-back set in the WCO, but this ain't it. If the fullback is a lead blocker, why the talk about losing Vickers?

Will some of you knowledgeable posters help me understand the role of a fullback in the WCO? It really seems to me that we need to be providing a lead blocker for Hillis rather than using Hillis as a lead blocker. I can't believe that a football coach at any lever would do anything to diminish Hillis' performances offensively.

My personal opinion is that the team has -- and continues to -- count too heavily on Hardesty. He obviously has shown nothing -- except the ability to get hurt. I can see nothing he has done that merits the team's confidence in him as a savior capable of moving Hillis to the role of lead blocker.

So what is HIllis' role going to be?

I find it very hard to recognize much intelligence in McDaniels with all of the idiotic stuff he pulled in Denver. And he didn't show any imaginative innovations there either. The Broncos are much the worse for his time there. Don't believe all that stuff about his being able to create quarterbacks from nothing. He wanted to trade for Quinn when he got rid of Cutler. He finally got him, but he wasn't able to create a quarterback out of him. And he wasn't able to create a qb out of Tebow, either.

I have read some stuff that Kubiak will go back to Denver as HC. That would be a good move for all concerned, but it would take him out of the running for OC in Cleveland.

IF the Browns are going to get another OC next year, I hope they go after someone who is a winner. There will be enough coaching staffs turning over after the season that there should be some really good candidates available.

I know broadcasters can be annoying, but some of us don't even get to hear or see any of the game to gripe about the announcers. Sure would like to be able to gripe.

Ok, folks, it's question time.

We all know that much ado was made about the size -- particularly the height -- of the quarterbacks in the last draft.

Here's the question: How big is Michael Vick?

Second question: How big is Colt McCoy?

Answers:

Vick is 6'0" 207 pounds (I have to admit, I thought he was much larger than this)

Colt is 6'1" 216 pounds (I can't believe McCoy is actually larger than Vick)

Nobody mentioned Vick when they were looking for quality qb's who were "exceptions to the height rule."

NOTE: I am not comparing quarterbacking styles, abilities, or any other aspects of playing the position of quarterback.

I'm going to put my wide receiver bid in to consider Greg Childs from the University of Arkansas (6'3", 217). He is just a junior this year, so I don't know if he will come out.

I would love to get Shipley to Cleveland some way, but I don't think Cincy is going to let him go, certainly not after he has had a good rookie season. To put McCoy and Shipley back together would put a lot of pressure on them. Expectations would be unrealistically off the charts.

@earl34 said:

HD, I agree that some football commentators use too much jargon that isn't really in a lot of people's vocabulary. That's why some of the better ones are good. Tim Ryan whom I mentioned above is also an analyst on Fox on Sundays teamed up with Sam Rosen. He usually does west coast games but if you ever listen to him, the style is much like what he does on his radio show. He likes to educate the listener and take you deeper into the game. On the radio, some of the long time listeners really get the jargon down and they're good enough to say things like "Whoa, whoa...let's review for the listeners..."11 personnel", first number is the number of backs, second number is # of TEs in the game."

Do you want a glossary that defines basic things like "fumble" or do you want something that defines more esoteric stuff? Could you give me an example? Perhaps we could set up our own glossary. Between all of the posters on here we possibly could answer each other's questions.

I am really looking for something that describes such things as various defensive line and back activities (various rush strategies and coverages) and descriptions of the "activities" of offensive linemen (blocking strategies), pass routes, etc.

Thanks for help!

@earl34 said:

Thanks everyone. I have been interested in this sort of thing for a while;

I would offer a couple of resources for those interested in learning more:

1) For those of you with Sirius satellite radio, the "Moving The Chains" show from 3-7pm EST with Tim Ryan and Pat Kirwan really is great. Tim is a former player and Pat is a former coach, scout and GM. The show isn't always about X's and O's but they usually infuse a lot of information into their shows that I can't say you get anywhere else. Not every show on NFL network is THIS informative but I love the show and listen to as much as I can. Since the two of them have covered most of the positions available in a football organization, their insight is really great. They also don't allow some of the bull that goes on other shows from the callers. They keep it pretty high level. This show is the only reason I keep Sirius. It alone is worth it to me.

2) Pat Kirwan (above) has written a book called "Take Your Eye Off The Ball" which is really great. It's a "how to watch football" kind of book for someone who wants a deeper understanding. If you played a ton of football or have a lot of knowledge in the area...it's possibly not detailed enough (another book is apparently on the way) but it's really quite good. It breaks down what everybody does and it also has a great chapter about what a week is like for coaches and players. He also goes through different position groups and describes what they do and how teams look for them. You could probably read the whole thing in a weekend. I am considering giving this away as a Christmas present this year.

3) There is a website that I love (but doesn't get updated too often) called "Smart Football" at http://www.http://smartfootball.com/. Sometimes it's a bit over my head but I have a good time trying to figure it out

While these resources won't necessarily make you an expert, I think they'll get the interested fan a little deeper in knowledge and would be a good start.

Do you know where I might find a source that defines football terms commonly used by commentators (something like a dictionary of football terms)? The descriptions have changed a lot since I played football. My son can help me out if we are watching a game together (less frequent since he is now married with children). This terminology thing is difficult because the commentators seem to assume that all listeners/watchers are fluent in football-speak. That is one of the major reasons I like your analytical posts. You make it understandable.

But ain't it great that our too short qb with a weak arm can complete a pass to our receiver who is covered by one of the top cover players in the NFL?!!!!!! Just think what he could do if he fit the "description of a REAL quarterback." (Right! That's like "Just think what Bill Gates could have done if he had finished college.") It was no accident that McCoy completed that pass. That entire series to tie the game with time running down was an act of a REAL quartergack. I think he is in THE place where he needs to be playing for fans who (I hope) appreciate him.

I went to church with Colt in Austin. He and Jordan Shipley were active with the junior high and high school groups. I was really amazed to see them on a Sunday morningn after they had played in El Paso the previous night. They told me they had gotten in at 5:00 a m and they were on time for the morning services.

One humorous thing. McCoy and some of the youth group (and some of the ministerial staff) were passing a football around in the building and McCoy knocked a ceiling tile down. He was forgiven.

I know Shipley is now playing on a rival team, but we miss them. Fortunately, Colt's brother is at UT this year (yep, another quarterback) and will be joined by another Shipley (yep, another receiver) next year.

You really got a man when you selected Colt.

Don't have a station to which you can listen or watch, but you might try visiting the Cover Three (sportsbar). They always have the Browns games on TV.

@shanahallen said:

He's a Skin now!

Watchout, dudes. You know what happens when Shanahan gets one of "those" backs in the zone blocking scheme...

Congrats on the win over the Saints and thanks for the new pony!

I don't know if you are serious or joking, but you made me think about his going to the Skins. This move is the best thing that could have happened for Davis. Shanny likes those 6th and 7th round picks and has been very successful with them --- just ask Hillis.

@theclevelandsound said:

Dumb move. We should have taken advantage of James Davis while we had a chance.

The coaches tried to take advantage of his skills. They certainly didn't draft him just so they could cut him.

He was frequently injured. He couldn't (maybe wouldn't) find a role on special teams. Was a poor blocker. Rushing stats were not good.

The coaches would have had to make silk from a sow's ear for this guy to be a contributing member of the team.

If we are drafting in a first round spot and one of the annointed qb's is available, can you imagine how many draft picks, including at least one first rounder, we could get in a trade? We definitely need a wr. We could probably get the top choice in our list of needs. We really need one now!!

If the new contract includes a cap on first round choices or an NBA style scale for first rounders, I think we will see more linemen - offense and defense - taken in the first round. Qb's and rb's have pretty well dominated the first round historically, but I think it will become possible to draft linemen without having to pay the astronomical salaries currently demanded by first round selections.

Since we are currently in a situation in which we can "audition" some people, why don't we gamble and see what Matt Jones can do for us? He's been clean. He was strongly improving his last year with Jax. He was their #3 receiver, but was their leading receiver. He definitely has speed and he has height and can jump. He would definitely be an improvement over any wr we have now. I think he would work cheap just to get another shot. He could come to work now.

Good! After this game it should be assumed he will be the starting qb until the headlines tell us differently. It should not be a news item that he will start after the game with the Aints.

@4browns said:

Good point on Hillis, but I don't think anybody expected him to be this good, but it's not like we traded Quinn for a proven commodity. DA was made available for trade after he had no real value.

Was it ever confirmed that we tried to trade Harrison during the last off season? We have to trade Rogers by tomorrow or he remains a Brown the rest of the season.

I think Mangini had some idea about the worth of Hillis. When Mangini was coaching the Jets (2008), his team was third in rushing defense and no one had rushed for 100 yards against them. Denver came to town with Hillis as their starting rb and he went for more than 120 yards against NYJ -- most of it between the tackles. Mangini has said that he rememberred Hillis from that experience and when he was made available in the trade, Mangini wanted him. Since McDaniels (Denver HC) was letting Hillis sit, he was more than happy to let Hillis go in the trade.

There are two thingss about McCoy that contribute to his developing into a good qb: (1) he HATES to lose!!! (2) he's got GUTS. Add those characteristics to his ability to play, lead, read defenses, and pass the ball accurately and you have the formula for a winner.

The way some of you are posting leads those of us who are sane (and recognize that head shots are dangerous and have no place in the sport) to believe that you have sufferred too many head shots already!

Harrison is serious about retiring? Good! If he will learn to skate on ice, maybe he can get a job in the NHL as a goon. That should be quite natural for him.