@kosarfan said: BCS game Brent Mussberger saying "Nick Saban going to the Cleveland Browns ? I don't think so". Then later, "perhaps Alabama's defensive coach might consider the Cleveland Browns job". What an ass. He know's Cleelin is where careers go to die...I'd stay away too.

@kosarfan said: How does Shurmur's time at the helm of this team compare to Belichick's ? Instead of dropping his backside, should we stay the course for a change and keep some consistency, instead of having another 'one that got away' ? Given, even suggesting this guy could be 'one that got away' is a sin in many Browns fans eyes (including my own), but we have a foundation now for the first time in years. Not a Shurmur fan, his calls and drive are much less than I'd like to see making calls for any team other than Baltimore or Pittsburgh, but also said the same about Belichick years ago. This team has not held onto a coach for more than 2 or 3 years in how long ??? OK, you asked the question on how Shurmur's time at the helm compared to Belichicks. Lets see: Shurmur, so far in his career is 8-20. Belichick after his first two seasons here was 13-19. Let's look ate a few other coaches first two years: Chuck Noll in his first two years was 6-22 Bill Walsh in his first two years was 8-24 Tom Landry in his first two years was 4-20-2 Yea, these guys are Hall of Famers and coached in a different era. Who knows if Shurmur could actually be like these guys? They had patient, consistent ownership behind them. Shurmur has a new owner half way through his second year...and should probably not expect the same kind of patience. Especially when you see a guy like Jim Harbaugh come in in his first year and take a 6-10 team to a combined current 21-6-1 record in his first year. If Shurmur is to be replaced, they will want a Jim Harbaugh type success story.

@king-ghoolie-lives said: IT DOESN"T WORK THAT WAY. A QB either has it or not, right out of the box. I largely agree. By the time a guy makes it to be a pro rookie, he has had hundreds of hours worth of coaching and advanced training. They have been going to QB camps since they were 15 years old. While I don't think the idea of mentoring is totally worthless, it it more on how to be a pro, how to pack for roadtrips etc. It isn't about how to play the game. If a guy can't do that by this point, some 40 year old vet tossing the new guy a few tid-bits isn't going to all of a sudden turn on the lights for the kid.

@erie-dawg said:No pass rush as far as no more that 4? Is don't tackle in the rule book? The play where mack scored the o and d line men stood there. must play a T.E. that rule don't bother me. A T.E. is in the game most of the game anyway so I don't see a big deal. And I think you meant to say no offensive shifthing, again no big deal. since more teams play a 4-3 I think that's why you see that scheme. But come on I can't see how you put that on the rules because the game I watched had very little to no player effort. I think that's why the fans could care less. I was just saying that the rules are symptomatic of the malaise related to the game itself. The players sucked eggs, no argument. But the way that the game is structured doesn't encourage them to try. It's before the super bowl now, so we can't even pretend like we want to watch cause its the last NFL game until the start of next year's preseason. Players like Tom Brady fake injuries to avoid coming. And I for one find it difficult to root for either side when it consists of millionaires chanting about winning the bigger check and getting a new car; or paying the hotel/travel bills of their family members/posse. At least they pretend like its about the team during the rest of the season. I also think All Star games in general are becoming shit. Does anybody seriously watch the NBA game anymore? And this past year's MLB game was 4+ hours of kissing the ass of the late George Steinbrenner and all that did for (read "to") the game of baseball. That bastard helped establish a system that has crippled half the teams in the league from ever having a legitimate shot ever again.

I think it is becoming clearer by the game . Our players lack drive, skill,desire,ability,direction,instinct, and a few other things necessary to make a contender . Till they pull their heads out of their asses , and get a game plan from the coaches we are absolutely screwed .

Good move. Dude is broke. We need that roster spot with our picks this year. My friend went to a Browns practice last year or 2 years ago, doing some video work. Got to talking with Heiden, good dude. But did a sprint and ran back to where he was standing, talking with my friend. My friend asked him, WTF, do you carry your keys when practicing? He laughed and said it was his ankle.

I've been going to the Browns games since 1971, and have many great memories, and it's pretty hard to put a "best one" out there. I will say that my favorite game watching on TV was when we finally broke through at Three Rivers in 1986 and won. "The Cube" ran back a kickoff in the 2nd half, and the jinx was finally over. I was at a clambake in Richfield, everyone was going nuts. That 1986 season was just a blast...too bad we took Puzzuli out on 3rd & 19....I'm gonna get over it someday

He has had 4 years to learn the reciever spot..still sucks there.. maybe by the time he is 42 he can learn to play QB..

If you've not done it already, rent The Express about Ernie Davis. Good movie that blew through the theaters fast (don't know why) and is now on rental racks. Seems Ernie Davis would have been better than Jim Brown, is that true ? What a backfield that would've been. Damn shame, the guy was entirely too young and persevered through alot of crap - if the film is accurate. As much of an A$$wipe as Modell is, he knew how to build something, we can only hope we soon have again.

Doesn't make a difference. You're a Squeelfag nonetheless.

Mangini has said that RAc will not be the DC but he may stay on in the capacity of special assistant. Not even a position coach.

I was tossed on Arizona and Atlanta. At first chose Arizona, then Atlanta. I don't see Miami going far, but may be pleasantly surprised (I like the fact they've done what they've done). Tennessee I see putting Pittsburgh to bed for good. They did before as well. Indy is the hot ticket in my opinion.

Abuse is ridiculous. Those idiots are probably idiots before and still are regardless of what their team is doing. We watch the Browns as a hobby....On our spare time....that same spare time where WE are the boss and WE call the shots. In everyday life, we normally have less tolerance. A certain store pisses you off, you don't shop their anymore. A child misbehaves he gets reprimanded. An employee under-performs repeatedly, fired. So why, do we put up with such consistant heart-break from something that we watch on our SPARE time? We wouldn't put up with this in our everyday life but we take it in the chute on our limited SPARE time only to be disappointed year after year. If the Browns were a wife or a girlfriend, she's be divorced, dumped or put on the shelf in lieu of a second girlfriend while she earned back your affection. It's amazing our tolerance for such consistant suckage. The worst part of being a Browns fan is every January when the best football is being played we're sitting there with a fork in us.

Oops. i just reread this. Bobby Franklin did not snap, he was Groza's holder. i don't remember who the long snapper was in the mid 60's. Did John Morrow long snap? Help.

@jewdago said:all right, fluges. here are some responses to your list. 1) anquan boldin (if he's actually a FA: rotoworld says he's signed through 2010), housh, antonio bryant or jabar gaffney 2) harrison 3) shonn green, marlon lucky or rashad jennings 4) quinn 5) free agents: khalif barnes, jordan gross, vernon carey, stacy andrews, elton brown or some kids we draft 6) uh, street FAs? 7) b-mac and wright, possibly jones and d'qwell, curry if we get him rex ryan (i hope) 9) curry and crowder (for sure), possibly angelo crowell, and wishing for suggs or peppers 10) jim kleinsasser, maybe bo scaife, but kleinsasser is an awesome blocker. we should also investigate using vickers as a TE in two-TE sets. he needs to see more of the field. 11) if we can, chris canty to replace robaire and alex hall or a FA for willie 12) jabari greer, eric green, philip buchannon are all FAs, or we could make a run at scrabble 13) a healthy jones, maybe. or taylor mays if we don't get curry lots of free agents in there, but you can only do so much in a single draft, especially when you're missing picks. i think we actually can do most of it, though. pretty much the only things that aren't feasible are getting jordan gross, suggs, peppers and scrabble. and i think ryan not only will be a great head coach, but he'll create a defensive strategy that uses our people will and plays to their strengths instead of slavishly adhering to a system because it's all he knows. dude's a mad scientist. and i think he can deal with the culture shock. he's got people he can lean on like his brother and his dad. they can help him through it. also, he might be able to bring in wade phillips as DC, which would also help. Nice job JD! Some very good ideas to diffuse my venting. - Tom F.

@kosarfan said:Terrel Owens at his horsesh** again. Bitching about not getting the ball, not being used. Stats show Jason Witten actually catching the ball, imagine that. Less throws to Witten, but more catches than TO, where do these guys get off ???? Do WE have this problem ??? All but the bitching. Remember Braylon getting on Charlie Frye ? Too many of these guys are premadonnas, although I'll at least give Braylon credit for cleaning up his act, while Terrel Owens' just gets more and more whiny Bit$$ syndrome. The NFL should outline a rule about guys that infect teams like this punk and oust them after so many teams throw in the towel on asses like this. Now the concern ... I really hope the Browns don't get any ideas about TO as a Brown. That's a good job by you Kosarfan! Me-O = Meow! When is the last time that guy won a post season game for his franchise? Never did it once in Philly and hasn't done it yet in Dallas. When GOOD people are losing jobs all over this country - I have a hard time watching someone like that refusing to appreciate the winning lottery ticket life has handed him. He needs to shut the hell up, grow a pair of testicles and play ball. If he was playing for NE and he tried to pull that kind of nonsense Mike Vrable or Teddy Bruschi would rip his tonsils out of his throat if one of their olinemen didn't get there first. - Tom F. (There's no crying in football!)

#1 Browns #2 Steelers #3 Cowboys #4 Packers #5 Eagles

mz. said:I still think keeping Harrison, dumping Jamal and Wright, bringing in a guy like Maroney and adding another via the draft is the way to go, RB-wise here. I think we're good at RB. Jamal still has some juice and I really like Harrison and Wright, though none are every down backs. Look at the two best teams in the league right now... 2-3 backs that all get carries. Give them all at least one more season. If Braylon doesn't have the drops and the OL performs just a little better, the running game really takes off this year.

There's no way Cowher would wind up in dirty, dirty Cleveland - and there's no way yinz should want him. I posted this over on the other stains forum. First, since he's hit it big, he wants his dick sucked the way he wants it sucked and when he wants it sucked. When he's hungry, he's a great motivator and defensive mind. He's no longer hungry and he'll never be hungry at this point. Great D mind, but couldn't draft an offensive player to save his ass. He could draft a LB in the 7th round that would be a pro-bowler in a year or two, but ask him to draft a RB, QB (with the exception of Ben - but even Ben was a default draft pick, Cowher originally targeted Rivers) or a WR and forget it. He's going to want control and partial ownership in addition to the coin - which I doubt your FO will pay out. Who has your FO hired as coaches in the past? Anyone of Cowher's pedigree? Nope, and that's the main reason why it ain't happening. Personally, I would like to see it happen. Might spark that long-dead rivalry that I dearly miss. Regards ..... an'at .

Took this long to get Brady Quinn in and will take another 5 games or so to address stiffs on defense. Coaching needs a revamp. Drop Brandon Mc for good, get Big Shawn some help on the line so we can at least put SOME pressure ona QB. Cutler is no star. We can make any QB - ie.: Flacco - look like a seasoned vet, just give us a chance by looking for a deep pass. Quin was outstanding and too long coming. Defensive issues may be too long coming as well. We need to win ALL remaining games. Can Big Shawn possibly blitz AND get back to play secondary ?????? Somebody needs to light a fire under McGinest too !