As the lockout appears to be winding down, I am starting to get antsy for some football.

That being said, I am continuing to be more and more impressed with McCoy. Our other former 3rd-rd. QB from Akron may have had Colt's tougness but he's not on the same planet in terms of leadership.

McCoy is taking charge of this team on the offensive side of the ball. It's refreshing because Charlie and DA never wanted to be the vocal leaders, and Jake D talked the talk but couldn't walk the walk.

I know people want to talk about how he didn't have good games in "cold weather" December, but if you really look at how those games played out, Colt played just fine. In Cincy, we barely had the ball at all. Against Baltimore, Colt struggled but he wasn't awful. Ed Reed made plays. And the last game against Pittsburgh was just a train wreck for everybody.

Colt played well in New Orleans, and at home against New England and New York, in CONSECUTIVE weeks. That's pretty damn good for a rookie QB in my book.

If Little is the real deal, then Colt's got plenty of adequate weapons in Little, Massaquoi, Cribbs, Moore, and Watson. That's not even mentioning guys like Stuckey, Robiskie, and Hillis and Hardesty out of the backfield.

No matter what happens, McCoy won't fail because of lack of confidence.

Nothing harder than burying your child. Prayers and condolences for the Trewin family.

While I hope for the best for Coach Shurmur, I know I am going to miss Eric Mangini and probably already do. This story only adds to that feeling. He is a guy that is easy to admire for his values. He is no longer employed by the Cleveland Browns which is how he met this brave young man, yet he feels compelled to travel hundreds of miles to pay his respects to the family and spend some time with the family's other child.

Why does he do it?

Maybe it's because EM is a father of young children. Maybe.

Definitely because EM has character. Definitely.

Good luck with your future coaching career, Eric. You've already got life figured out.

@shepwrite said:

BTW, Grossi is saying that McCoy's arm strength and bad weather struggles ARE an issue Holmgren and others will discuss. If the Browns go WCO, as expected, it's less of an issue because it focuses on the considerable talents McCoy DOES have (accuracy, intelligence, anticipation, mobility, etc.).

But if the Browns were to hire Mike Mularkey, for instance, Mularkey might want to go after Ryan Mallett, who seems like the prototypical AFC North QB, the love child of Flacco and Roethlisberger. The Browns would still need to upgrade at WR, but maybe it's Steve Breaston and a speedster in round 3 (assuming defense in round 2).

Interesting to watch. If the Browns hire Mularkey, and he's seen as one of the "gets," then I'm not as positive about McCoy being a lock.

Hey shep: F*** what Grossi says, ok?

Colt's arm is more than adequate. It's the f**** p.o.s. talent on the edges that are the problem. Dude is the most accurate QB I have seen in the brown and orange since Bernie and we all know who wins the mobility comparison there.

I have watched Mallett quite a bit these last two years and this dude is frighteningly accurate downfield with a big arm . . . . until pressure comes. Then he makes poor decisions or takes sacks at bad times. Love the guy, but he will struggle to make plays when the protection breaks down. Reminds me of Brady, though, with a stronger arm: stands tall in the pocket, deadly accurate, ball gets from a to b quickly.

This is Colt's team in 2011, though. Get him some studs on the edge. If we can get Green and a FA, or a DL with our first pick and then Floyd/Blackmon, I am ok with that. But we cannot go through another off-season without targeting an offensive playmaker early in the draft.

So I guess we should go and get DA back, eh, Tony? Because he has arm strength to burn, especially in that oh-so-tough December weather.

Grossi, if you are reading this, you are nothing but a f***ing pot-stirring putz.

And you can print that, f***head.

As for the rest of you on this board, here's what I will say about Colt's last three games or so.

Why on earth do people assume bad weather/arm strength as the reason for his struggles?

He played well against Cincinnati in December when given the chance to throw the ball. He made one poor decision against Baltimore when Reed had the first pick, but other than that I thought he held his own on a pretty tough day against a defense he hadn't faced yet. Against Pittsburgh, that early pick wasn't his fault, but the second one was.

Again, this is a rookie. He's going to have growing pains. Just watch Sam Bradford NEXT YEAR when he matches up against AFC North defenses. Yeah, that's right Sam, Denver and SD ain't on yer sked next year, pal. Guarantee he struggles against Pittsburgh and Baltimore.

Colt's accuracy is what makes up for his perceived lack of arm strength. Now just imagine what he can do with a pair of wide receivers who can actually get some sort of separation so Colt doesn't have to throw it on a freakin' dime every time.

Sipe and Kosar weren't born with rockets on their right arm either, guys, and watch Brees get it done next week in Chicago.

F***ing Grossi, though. That f***er ain't happy unless he's miserable about something.

The Cowher talk shouldn't even get off the ground here.

Has everybody forgotten that the Big Show crapped all over Cowher's only SB win?

@hoorta said:

I've always said when it comes to NFL football, "I'd rather be lucky than good." Lucky AND good can win you a Super Bowl. Unlucky and mediocre gets you 5-9 like the Browns.

Well, the Browns are still very much a team trying to make their way in the NFL wilderness. And not trying to have it both ways I think Buddy Ryan said, "ain't no Coastal Carolinas in the NFL."

Buffalo we got another "bad Jake", and that's certainly on Mangini.

Bengals? They were Division champs last year- and give 'em credit- they mightily exposed the Browns weaknesses- like zero pass rush from the front seven, weakness @ LB to fill gaps in the shaky D-line to stop Benson, and no viable wrs to take the pressure off of Hillis amounting to a sub par game by Peyton.

When you really take a hard look at how teams have had success against us since the second half of the Jets game it's been pretty simple: run right at us. The Jets murdered us on TOP in the second half. Jones-Drew rambled on us. Carolina had success running the football. Miami's stupid game plan called for more Henne and less WildDawg, but Ronnie Brown/Ricky Williams chewed up the yardage. Then the last two weeks happened as well.

That's not scheming, folks, when you get run over. That's my guys are better than your guys, you can't stop us. Ironically, it's how we were winning games last December. This year, with the loss of Yates, Pashos on offense and Robaire and Fujita on defense, it ain't happening up front.

@wrrebel said:

I like how you mangini supports grasp for what ever you can to make an arugment.

"So we have looked soft the last two weeks. Yep, you're right and that's what we should base it on alone. Never mind the fact that when this team was fully healthy on both lines it beat up teams in the trenches like New England, New Orleans, and Baltimore. But let's just base it on 120 minutes of football that wasn't so good."

Hey numb nuts, Im actually judging him on the last two years.. I use the last two games as an example with all you homo's saying how hard we play.. This is still a bottom line business, and yes alot of it is determined by wins and losses.

Your one of the mangini supporters who use smoke and mirrors in there posts.

"Oh, that's only the case here in Cleveland? Really? Well, bring in Gruden to drop some pixie dust on this roster and voila, we'll be printin' Super Bowl tickets before you know it."

Not pixie dust dick weed, but gruden would bring in something called offense. You do know that when we have the ball, we are on offense right?

'IM DREAMING OF A JON GRUDEN, JUST LIKE THE ONE FROM TAMPA BAY"

Judging on the last two years, huh?

Okay, then.

Then answer a few questions for me:

1) Is this team better off now than it was in January 2009 when Eric Mangini was hired?

2) What do you think Jon Gruden's record would be here in Cleveland and why, had he been hired instead of Mangini in January 2009?

@1-more-season said:

Your basing success on 180 mins of football.

OK, I'm with you guys wins and losses don't count. Get the parents to make a tunnel for the team to run through and bust out the orange slices. Participation trophy's to follow.

That's just my point, you dope. My argument isn't any more valid than REBEL's is.

You have to look at the whole picture. Not just wins and losses, not just one or two games in a season. Every season takes on its own identity. You have ups and downs, injuries, near misses, thrilling wins, frustrating losses, etc.

With what the expectations were for this season, with what's happened to this thin roster as the season's worn on, with Colt McCoy's surprising emergence, with Josh Cribbs's contributions being nil the last half of the season, etc., I am encouraged by what I see for the future with EM as our coach.

Remember, we still have holes in our personnel at many areas on the field:

Right guard

Right tackle

#1 wide receiver

Backup running back

Defensive end

Defensive end

Inside linebacker

Nickel corner

Why are we 5-9? Because of poor coaching alone? Is that really the argument from those that want to fire Coach Mangini? Seriously, how many organizations in this league would swap out their roster for ours? And before you go crucifying Mangini about the '09 draft (which was terrible and why he no longer runs the draft/scouting) understand that this roster has NEVER been stocked with talent at the key positions since we've been back in '99.

This is the first year we have had a good, deep draft that has had immediate impact and promising impact for the long-term.

We have ten-year starters at three key positions. That's clear after just fourteen regular season games. Heckert did a great job in his first go-round here in Cleveland.

Give Mangini more talent via the draft and free agency and this team will be a playoff contender in 2011. Period.

Does anybody here realize how deep and talented the AFC is? It's damn difficult to make the playoffs. You might have two 12-4 WILDCARDS this year. There's a good chance the Browns will have played ALL SIX playoff teams in the AFC this year. That's eight games, half the schedule. Let that marinate for a moment.

To make the playoffs in this conference with a roster thin on talent, nearly everything has to fall right and you have to take advantage of the breaks you get (easy schedule, catching a banged-up/reeling team at the right time, etc.) to be in the hunt in December. I am not making excuses here. I'm simply stating what is common knowledge. The Browns were on the cusp of doing this until Fujita's injury, Stuckey's fumble, Jones-Drew's screen pass rumble, and Colt's turned ankle. Boom, just like that, any chances this team had to contend were gone. Mediocre teams can't afford these bad breaks at key times. Good teams can and usually do overcome them. The Browns arent' there YET with Mangini, but with more talent at the right positions next year they COULD be.

@wrrebel said:

in this business its measured in wins and losses.

You say we have a tougher team but we have looked pretty soft the last two weeks.

I think mangini supporters are more anal then me.

Again, that's such a short-sighted, piece of shit response, REBEL.

We're so much more physical with Mangini than we ever were with Crennel. I'm also talking about mental toughness which Mangini has helped to instill in this team as well. When things were going badly last year, the team played through it and it paid off with solid efforts in the last six games or so. That never happened for Crennel or Davis or Palmer when things started to get ugly.

So we have looked soft the last two weeks. Yep, you're right and that's what we should base it on alone. Never mind the fact that when this team was fully healthy on both lines it beat up teams in the trenches like New England, New Orleans, and Baltimore. But let's just base it on 120 minutes of football that wasn't so good.

As far as wins and losses go, I am assuming you would fire Chan Gailey, Steve Spagnuolo, Jim Schwartz, and Ken Whisenhunt after this year, too? Because those guys are failures with wins and losses as well.

Never mind that each of these coaches have faced their own pieces of adversity and extenuating circumstances. I mean how can these guys win when they lose their top two quarterbacks to injury, have only one viable running back, no gamebreakers at wide receiver, have lost three key members of their front seven to injury on defense, and their biggest special teams/WildDawg threat has been playing on a bum wheel the last half of the season?

Oh, that's only the case here in Cleveland? Really? Well, bring in Gruden to drop some pixie dust on this roster and voila, we'll be printin' Super Bowl tickets before you know it.

@1-more-season said:

Why are so many Browns fans willing to settle for mediocrity and are almost happy with it? You mean to tell it's wrong to expect a 2-3 win improvement for a coach taking over a 4-12 team.

No, it's wrong to measure improvement solely based on wins and losses.

And no one is settling for mediocrity. Did you really expect this team to go to the playoffs this year? Did you really? Then you should have your freakin' head examined. Look at the roster for crying out loud. This team wasn't going anywhere this year with Vince Lombardi as the HC, Bill Walsh as the OC, and Bill Belichick/Dick LeBeau as co-DCs.

What were your expectations going in? Mine were for a better level of competitiveness and more wins, hopefully 7-9, 8-8. Again, hopefully. Are we more competitive against good teams? Absolutely. Are we going to win 7 or 8? No. But were we far from that plateau when you look at the games? Obviously not. Close games, the entire year against good and bad. One play here or there. Stuckey's fumble, Kasay's doink-job, Wallace's pick-six. That's life in the NFL.

Even the good teams have had their share of ups and downs. Take Pittsburgh for example. Lucky to win at Buffalo. Lucky to win at Miami. Lost a close one against New York. Lost at New Orleans. Lost at home big-time to New England. Obviously, they have had more ups than downs, but inconsistency reigns in the NFL especially when you don't have playmakers at key positions. Hell, they went from SB champs to out of the playoffs in one season. Need I say more?

If the Browns are 5-11 next year with an easier schedule, another Heckert draft, and a full year of Colt at QB, then hell yes nobody, not even the staunchest EM supporters should be settling for that. Then, and only then, can we justifiably talk about EM being shown the door.

Damn, I just hate it when people refuse to recognize the fact that EM has been the ONLY coach here willing to do a rebuild the right way: clean up the roster/locker room, acquire more draft picks, and instill a tougher, more disciplined and consistent approach to the game. And now because we have lost to Buffalo and Cincy in consecutive weeks, it's clear we're not making progress in Year 2 of a FULL FLEDGED REBUILD? Bullshit.

@mudratdetector said:

i'm glad that holmgren hasn't been more involved with the media because he shouldn't diginify the horseshit that they are printing.

Mudrat,

Careful, you are giving horseshit a bad name.

@roach said:

All the Mangini talk has reached an irritating level. i never pay attention to internet rumors, and seldom listen to the knuckleheads on ESPN. But the Mangini discussion has reached the local networks and the Plain Dealer. That means it has some teeth.

There is only one explanation for these sources to get involved and stick their necks out- Holmgren's office is leaking this stuff. i think it is a chicken shit way for him to approach the matter. i thought he was more of a straight up guy than that.

Roach,

Actually the "Mangini discussion" never left the Plain Dealer. It's been there since the day Eric Mangini was hired. Mary Kay and Tony G. have made sure of that. And as far as the local networks go, WKNR has served as the radio version of the PD, calling for Mangini's head relentlessly.

Don't blame Holmgren, blame the agenda-driven hacks who have a pen in hand or a microphone in their faces.

Ironically, the only voice of reason on KNR, if you don't count Rizzo, has been the long-reviled Aaron Goldhammer.

Holmgren has said nothing because there's nothing to comment on. He will make decisions on this staff after the season and I am sure EM will be open to discussing the job security of Daboll and receivers coach George McDonald. It won't be easy for EM, but that's life in this business.

Shep,

One thing I want you and others to please consider is this: Mangini's perceived philosophy on quarterbacks has been tainted by what he has had to work with at all positions on offense. I don't think it's fair to say he doesn't have the right idea about offensive football when he's worked with Delhomme, Pennington, and journeyman skill guys, etc.

What I am saying is this: Mangini will allow the QB to win the game for him when the QB CAN win the game for him. Mangini will allow the offense to open up once the right QB is there. You saw it in the New England game and the Jets game as well when Colt was playing well.

Let's not forget how Belichick was winning games here in 1992 with Tomczak in there during Bernie's injury. I hate to use this as an example, but it's the best Browns-related one I have. Win the game with your defense and running game, and put the QB in position to make plays from time to time. Tomczak wasn't going to lead that rotten-ass team to the playoffs, just like Jake can't do it here. Lo and behold, Vinny comes along in 1993, Bill cuts Bernie, and then in '94, bingo, the Browns are in the playoffs on the arm of Testaverde.

That model is similar to what Mangini HAS to do NOW, THIS year. With Colt most likely the guy next year, and with a better OC, BOOM, we could be partying like it's 1994. The offense will be and should be trusted more next year with EM here.

@shepwrite said:

I don't hate Mangini and it wouldn't bother me to keep him if he kinda-sorta lets Holmgren/Haskell fix the offense with a new OC and the WCO Holmgren obviously believes in... but I do struggle to figure how anybody would be very passionate about him. He really hasn't done anything in his head coaching career and he's not the most likable guy.

Shep,

Let me try to answer this. First off, understand that I respect you as a poster on this board. If nothing else, you generate things that we can debate and that's the idea of a message board.

Let me speak for myself. I am not as passionate about Mangini as much as I am passionate about the Cleveland Browns. If Mr. Holmgren decides to go another direction with the head coach after this year, I will still be as passionate about the Orange and Brown.

But I am not going to stand idly by with my hat in my hand as media/internet rumblings begin to attempt to remove the first coach this 11-year old franchise has had who sticks to his guns, holds players accountable, gets his players to play disciplined, smart football, and doesn't kowtow to the local media. Firing Mangini after Year 2 of a serious rebuild, a rebuild in which he was willing to clean up the cultural mess he inherited in Year 1, would be a mistake. I don't understand how people can argue that clear progress hasn't been made especially with the little things such as penalties, player accountability, etc. A competitive 5-8 in Year 2 with ALL factors taken into consideration isn't satisfying by any stretch, but it's also not an abomination that justifies the removal of the head coach.

Your second point about how he hasn't done anything in his head coaching career is completely unfair. He never got the chance to finish the job in New York and if some have their way, the axe will prematurely fall again here in Cleveland. ALL NFL coaches who have had long-term success have had short-term struggles along the way for various reasons. Belichick, Walsh, Noll, and Parcells all had dismal records early on in their careers. But thankfully for them and their fans, those organizations weren't making decisions in today's INSTANT GRATIFICATION era. Because if Walsh went 2-14 in Year 1 and 6-10 in Year 2 (as he did in SF) today in Cleveland, he would probably be fired on The Browns Board threads. Coach Mangini deserves another year at the very least because significant, important, cultural, and tangible progress is clearly evident.

To touch on your final point about Mangini being 'not the most likable' guy, just let me say I have always been a substance over style guy. Give me a Mangini presser any day over a Rex Ryan/Jerry Glanville vaudeville act. The man is consistent in how he approaches things. When things go right or wrong, he's consistent in his approach. Coaches that wear their emotions on their sleeves don't often respond well to adversity. That's why I admire stoic guys who have been (Landry, Noll, Belichick, Walsh, Fisher) and will be (Harbaugh, Payton) successful long term in this league. You can have the loudmouth expressive hacks like Sparano, Rex, Sam Wyche, etc. Mangini expects his players to learn each day. He expects them to be accountable for their actions. He expects them to prepare and improve each and every day. But the best part is that he expects these things from himself as well and then goes out and walks the walk. Many call him unlikable, but he has the respect of the players in that locker room. It would have been very easy for him to go out there on Monday and kill Delhomme for his performance, but he didn't. Delhomme's a big boy, an 15?-year veteran who can take it, but instead Mangini deflected that criticism, unlike Rex who threw his beleaguered 22-year old 2nd-year QB under the bus this week. Privately, EM is demanding of his guys, but publicly he steps up to the plate and does what he should: he protects these guys from the criticism they face. That's why I respect the man so much, and if there's something I do get passionate about in regards to EM, it's that. Criticize the coach, but don't dare criticize the man. He's got character. Period. And for someone like Tony Grossi to use the PD as a sounding board for a personal attack against EM, sickens and angers me. It's amazing that EM has been able to dutifully answer that POS's baited questions this long without cracking.

Again, Shep, I respect your posts, but I am passionate enough about speaking out on the importance of keeping Eric Mangini because of where I see this franchise heading with him as the head coach.

@pizzadeliveryguy said:

What amazes me is that no one mentions the strength of schedule that the Browns have endured. 10 of the 13 teams on the Browns' schedule have winning records with most of them being playoff teams and have compiled a total of 97-72, no one in their right mind expected more than 7 wins this year and if you did I am truly sorry for your mental capacity. I've also seen people complaining about other teams turning it around this year like the Chiefs, Bucs, and Rams. Look at the schedules for Christ's sake.

St. Louis- Played 4 winning teams- w/ a total record of 73-96

Tampa Bay- 5 - 80=89

Kansas City- 4 - 69-100

So lets try and get real here. Mangini most definitely has this team headed in the right direction. The team has been in every game against a brutal schedule while using QBs that range from a castoff from the worst team in the league, a career backup, and a rookie 3rd rounder. They are starting to learn how to win and with another good draft and some free agent pickups from a much improved FO we should be in the playoff hunt next year. Or we can start all over and watch as we miss out on more FAs due to having no stability or confidence in anyone. Won't that be fun.

pizza,

You beat me to it. Great post about strength of schedule.

Look, I for one am not trying to make excuses for our 5-8 record. But you cannot ignore what this undermanned, banged-up team has had to face this year.

Any reasonable, again, REASONABLE, fan would tell you that when camp convened in July this team was looking at 6-7 wins, 8 if everything fell right. Now, looking back at a schedule that featured 8-5, 8-5, 9-4, 2-11, 10-3, 10-3, bye, 10-3, 11-2, 9-4, & 8-5 in the first 11 weeks, we are ready to get rid of the coach even though the team won three of those games and held 4th quarter leads in all but one?

It's funny that last year's 4-game winning streak was disparaged by those who were in favor of removing Coach Mangini. Many in that camp said it came against the also-rans of the league, yet now many of those same people are conveniently ignoring this brutal 10-game stretch.

Moreover, some people use St. Louis as the measuring stick for being MUCH improved at 6-7. Well, they are improved greatly in terms of wins and losses, but not their overall level of talent and play. 2 things have improved for St. Louis: 1) Getting a likely franchise QB & 2) An easy schedule (NFC West - 3-1 so far, NFC South - 1-3). But they are not playing tought teams week in and week out. For cripes sakes, what would the anti-EM folks be saying if we had lost to Detroit 44-6 as St. Louis did in Week 5? So St. Louis is great at 6-7, but the 5-8 Browns against much, much tougher competition are adrift? Please.

So this team (in terms of wins and losses) is about where most people thought, and they haven't closed games against stiff competition (Bal, Atl, Jax, NYJ) even though they were decided underdogs in some of these games, and those disappointing endings are why we should jettison Coach Mangini?

I am in agreement with those that say we need to take a serious look at the offense in the off-season. We don't just need a new coordinator, though, people. We need three, that's right, THREE guys along the offensive line. We need another running back to help Hillis. We need a #1 receiver and a solid, veteran somewhere in the mix, too. Our problems are shrinking, people. This management TEAM, yes, TEAM, had a great draft. Now, to send Mangini on his way after the obvious progress in season two, would be very disappointing in my opinion.

People argue for Gruden because he's a Holmgren guy. Which means he would be nothing more than a yes man in the meeting rooms. I, for one, like the idea of having the so-called Belichick/Walsh coaching tree mix of philosophies in the draft/meeting rooms. It's healthy to have varying opinions on things. We've already heard how in the draft, Heckert loved Haden, Mangini loved Ward, and Holmgren hand-picked Colt. What's that tell you? They are working TOGETHER and respect each other's feelings/knowledge on talent evaluation and team needs. Despite what the spin doctors here and elsewhere tell you, there are no ulterior motives with Holmgren keeping Mangini on as a lame duck coach this year. That's no way for an organization, especially in the NFL, to be run. Holmgren even said, ON RECORD, that the thing he learned the most from his previous GM/Prez gig at Seattle was to NOT WAIT in making necessary changes. He didn't keep Mangini for 2010 because he wanted to give him "enough rope to hang himself" as Tony Grossi tries to make you believe. He kept EM because of what he SAID: Eric is a good football coach. Anything otherwise is PURE speculation.

We have won a few we had no business winning (NO, NE), a few we didn't deserve to win (Mia, Car), and we've lost a bunch we could have won (NYJ, Jax, TB, KC, Bal) and one we had no business losing (Buf) even though Vegas had the Bills favored. The point? You will be a wildly inconsistent ballclub with middling talent in this league, especially at the QB position. The only consistency comes from the teams that have great QB play and good, solid coaching. We don't have great QB play week in and week out, as evidenced by Jake. Colt's play this year was about as close as it came and, not coincidentally, that's our best stretch of football in 2010. As far as coaching, EM is solid, but there's no doubt he's not without flaws and Daboll will most likely be the fall guy.

Keep EM, bring in a new OC, make the necessary personnel changes, and you will have a playoff-caliber team in 2011. Then if we are 5-8 playing the likes of SF, Sea, St. Louis, Tennessee, Houston, Oakland, and Miami -- I will begin to consider EM's place at the head of the table. But not before.

@shepwrite said:

If there was a way to literally keep Mangini away from the offense... I could live with it. But that's not how head coaches generally operate. He has an odd view of quarterbacks (he thought he could win with Kellen Clemens), one that's a decade or two behind the league.

Shep,

That's BS and you know it. Gruden thought he could win with Chris Simms. Show me an NFL coach and I will show you one who has made piss-poor judgements about QB talent.

For crying out loud, Holmgren spearheaded the Delhomme move. He also traded FOR Charlie Frye. Want me to keep going?

You want to claim Mangini is the problem on offense? That's rich. Fine, then he's done a wonderful job holding Rob Ryan's and Brad Seely's hands with the defense and special teams. No credit to those guys, whatsoever.

Look, I think Gruden is a good coach. But Mangini deserves more time.

Those who support Gruden want to throw out records, Super Bowl, etc. Fine.

But just answer this question. What would our record be today, after thirteen games, with everything that's happened at QB, with Jon Gruden as our head coach?

Daboll won't be here next year. That much is clear.

Look, Mangini rolled the dice on this guy when he couldn't bring Schottenheimer with him from NY. Eric did well to get Seely and Ryan who have done the job well. They've had their ups and downs this year, too. The high point for Seely was the Saints game with all the razzle-dazzle while Ryan's crown jewel was befuddling Tom Terrific. But Ryan's all-out blitzes against Baltimore exposed Wright and Seely's crew flat-out stunk in coverage this Sunday. That happens in this league. It's darn near impossible to be perfect in any week, let alone every week.

As for Daboll, outside of the New England game I have been unimpressed. I thought our playcalling against Jacksonville, in particular, was terrible and put Colt in tough, obvious passing situations. Instead of being aggressive when we got the myriad of turnovers, Daboll chose to button it up in that game. I know Colt suffered the ankle sprain in that game, but even before that the playcalling was very conservative. I realize MoMass and Cribbs were inactive in that game, but it was ridiculous how many times we ran on first down and second and long in that game. The lack of "O" in that game cost us and it's carried over into Miami and Buffalo.

Delhomme's capabilities aren't helping either. This guy just cannot make plays on his own and when he tries to, it blows up in his face. That lack of mobility in and out of the pocket is really putting this offense behind the 8-ball. He has no arm strength, either. Tony G is always, ALWAYS, barking about QBs being able to throw the ball in Cleveland in December. He's right about wanting to see what McCoy can do during that time, but I KNOW Jake can't throw it in any month.

Those last two wins with Jake at the helm were fool's gold. He almost gave them both away with a pick-six in one game and a shoulda-been pick-six in the other. With Colt, the win against New England and the near-miss against New York was real. It felt legitimate because it was. The kid was making plays and moving the offense. He brings excitement to watching the games, but Jake makes me worry every time he drops to throw.

So, yes, I hope Jake has taken his last meaningful snap as a Brown. And, yes, Daboll will not be the OC here next year. But if the Big Show decides to get rid of Eric that would be unjustified as hell. He is tremendously respected by his players and they compete week after week. People want to rake him over the coals for losing to Buffalo and then dismiss the excellent three-game stretch against NO, NE, and NYJ. You can't have it both ways, folks. I laugh when I look at all the other jobs in this league that current coaches are just butchering -- Marvin Lewis (2-11), Ken Whisenhunt (4-9 in the NFC West), Mike Shanahan (5-8 with McNabb), Wade Phillips (1-7 before the axe), Rex Ryan (9-4 with the self-proclaimed best team in the NFL), etc. The point? These guys are underachieving with what they have at their disposal. Period.

Give Eric a quality QB (maybe McCoy is the guy), a legit OC, and another good crop of draft picks and this is a playoff-caliber team in 2011.

I try to answer the 'favorite' part of this question by where I thought my loyalties might go in 1996. When the team left, I thought I would start rooting (halfheartedly of course) for someone else. I thought about the Packers because of their great fans, but they were starting to dominate and I didn't want to be a bandwagon jumper. So that left me with another Midwest team: the Bears. But, in truth, I never got into it emotionally those first few weeks of the 1996 season. And not long after that, Mr. Tagliabue and others announced the resurrection of our team and that was that.

So, in short, I like the Packers because of the fan base.

My wife is a Lions fan and I would like to see them succeed once in awhile, if only for the city. Interesting and somewhat funny story from a guy from Detroit whom I used to work with. Each year he drives the 2 hours to Detroit for Thanksgiving and volunteers at a soup kitchen in the downtown area during the early afternoon before heading to his relatives' place for Thanksgiving supper. And he tells me that each year the poor/homeless come through the line and don't complain about a thing and are very appreciative of everything they're given . . . and then the Lions game starts on TV. Nothing but complaining about the Lions ensues. So, in short, that tells you how the Lions can affect the emotions of some of the don't-haves in the city.

As far as hate goes, it runs hot and cold with some teams. Right now, I absolutely can't stand the Jets. Everything they exude is what's wrong with sports today: Cockiness, arrogance, selfishness, look-at-me spoiled-brats with talent, and it's all displayed on reality TV.

Then there are the teams I just hate, period.

Pittsburgh: Respect their annual toughness and success, but can't stand them just the same.

Baltimore: For obvious reasons.

Cincinnati: I think I hate the Bengals more because of their fans. They are the most fair weather-come-out-of-the-woodwork-shouting-WhoDey pieces of garbage I have ever seen in NFL fandom. Obviously they have had to put their black and orange back in storage this year.

Don't hate anybody in the NFC, but that's because I don't see them play enough, but the Cowboys would be a strong candidate.

@flugel said:

Good points about Riffer's post. That thing was packed with goodies and hilarious nicknames. I think he nails the part about young Wrs and Alex Mack in particular.

Anway, I remembered how devastated people were about Winslow and nehative about Watson. BB LOVES those TEs in round one (wanted Kyle Brady, snagged Ben Watson & Daniel Graham). Anyway, what got forgot is PHIL SAVAGE was 100% the reason Winslow lost any interest in staying in Cleveland 1 more day. If Winslow and poppa Winslow wanted to be jerks - I think there was a disturbing HIPPA violation they could have sued Savage for when testies became grapefruits under the acorn and somebody leaked some info to the public they shouldn't have. As far as being a COMPLETE TE, Winslow couldn't ever set the edge blocking so when he came in it was pretty predictable what we could only do. The guy could never practice and I think it really began to hinder and handcuff him in terms of consistency. Plus, it's not like we already had the most accurate QBs around.

Alot of the Mangini stereotypes came from the NY media presenting him as a football background of ballboy only. And then we research reality and this was his start leading up to coaching:

"Mangini played nose tackle at Division III Wesleyan University and holds the school's single-season (11.5) and career (36.5) sacks records[1]. During the second semester of his junior and senior years, he coached the Kew Colts, a semi-professional football team in Melbourne, Australia, to two regional championships.[2] Mangini joined the Chi Psi Fraternity that coaching mentor Bill Belichick, a Wesleyan alumnus, was part of two decades earlier."

Therefore, when some former towel boy that can conjugate verbs and get revenge on former atheletes with a freakin pc & keyboard - try to remember it's only fractional truths.

- Tom F. (That light at the end of the tunnel isn't the headlamp of an oncoming train any more - it's just Peyton Hillis)

Fluges,

Good stuff on Winslow. I never disliked Kellen as much as I did BE. Kellen was a player and he was a competitor as well. I wonder how it would have been for him sans injuries early in his career. Did I think he was a punk coming out of college? Of course, but when he was healthy and playing here I couldn't complain. Yes, he was a terrible blocker, but so is Evan Moore and that's why he got cut and that's why when he's in the game for us he's usually split out wide.

But the move to TB was a good one for Kellen. He needed a fresh start elsewhere, although I wonder how Mangini was able to make it work with Shaun Rogers but not Kellen.

As far as Mangini getting axed, the people arguing it for it to happen can only bring SPECULATION on what they THINK MIGHT happen. I will stick to facts: This team is competitive EVERY week. This team is BETTER than a year ago at this time. Mangini has his players EXPECTING to win.