@choco said:whats the fascination with gibson? most comparisons ive heard are to gholston....which isn't good. I think Gibson or worilds will be good 3-4 OLB's...to me it seems we have a bunch of JAG's at that spot...= just a guy.

Why think the Browns can't score? 80 over the lats four. Even if you take out the big game against Detroit, it's still 14.3 per game. First four games: 12.3 points per game Second four games: 7.3 points per game Third four games: 18.7 points per game Final four: 13 points per game. The offense isn't lethal by any stretch, but the timing that the receivers and Quinn are building and the new look of the running game are going to pay dividends. Another veteran WR, another RB would be nice, but a couple early picks on the defensive side of things could be huge.

@solon16 said:Yeah...lets fkn draft Defense.....we are the worst team in football. Daboll must go, quinn aint it, Da aint it....defense looked great tonight. IMPACT OFFENSIVE PLAYERS! caveat(suh) Worst Offense since 1933 holy fk.... Midway into the fourth qtr....ONE PASS OVER TEN YARDS.....ONE Nah, you would be referring to the Cincinnati Reds of leather helmet era. However if you want a really sickening stat, the Browns are currently on pace to set the record for fewest points scored in a 16 game season. Indy holds the embarrassment at 143. We keep this futility up we'll finish with 138.

@dawgtracker said:Congrats to whoever wrote this article, well done and thought out. Concerning all of the mistakes made since 1999 I think the biggest one is drafting the right players. If we had lots of tremendous players we would be winning our fair share of games. But, when you only have good players and role players without some studs you are not going to win many games. The bengals are a perfect example, they have drafted very well for a long time. Even with what I consider bad coaching they are still winning a lot more games recently than we have with the exception of one season The "whoever wrote the article" is Barry McBride, AKA ArtBeitz, Baltimore troll basher extrodinaire of AOL fame. Started out with this group, and branched out to start his own website. There's several of us on this board that go all the way back to the Dark Years with him.

agree...thought this guy was supposed to be a "great evaluator', yet wasn't scouting talent during the college season? simply hanging out doing nothing in the office? doesn't make sense to me.

I dusted of my christal balll

First of all, badly is an adverb. Adverbs modify verbs. Such as "We played badly." He used it to DESCRIBE how he felt. Description words are called adjectives, like the word BAD, for example. This is 5th grade grammar! just sayin.... if I was paid to write I would learn how to use the language we have all agreed upon. now that's out of my system. "George never had a chance to be successful — and maybe he wasn’t the most qualified person for the position -- but he never had a chance in Cleveland with “The Secret.” He was never able to gain the respect of the employees in the company because it’s difficult to lead people when there’s a refusal to communicate." hmmm.....now what did Joe Thomas think about Kokinis ''.....he wasn't around too much, and when he was he was pretty quiet.'' how about Cribbs? "When Cribbs was asked if he knew Kokinis, he said, ''Yeah,'' and laughed." I guess that's Mangini's fault as well. read it here: http://www.ohio.com/sports/68995447.html Perhaps Lombardi should take note and provide evidence to support his inane commentary. "He was not involved in the Braylon Edwards trade, for instance, because at that point the Kokinis era was already over. Since the beginning of the season, it has been the worst kept secret (kind of ironic, right?) that Kokinis was going to be gone. He wasn’t happy in Cleveland from the beginning, working for his good friend “The Secret,” and the Browns were not happy with his work. This hiring was flawed from the start." Absolutely no evidence given for any of this, just empty statements. This article is drivel. All statement, no substance.

Flugel....answer

nmills said:Management already understands were not satisfied. They fired the whole regime last year, what do you want them to do now fire the new regime 7 games in. Thats obsured Well said ... can't wait until we win the game tomorow in Chicago and PudPound Mike looks like a doofus for leading this.

the link is provided...jason Campbell

I wouldn't mind taking McCoy with a 2nd or 3rd rounder, depending on how many picks we end up with. I think he's a quality backup at worst, with a chance to be a good starter in the right system. I want to go with a veteran QB next year anyway, might as well take a flyer and see what McCoy's got, especially if we end up with 4 or 5 picks in the 2nd/3rd round range.

@legacy-fan said:Johnny Hugecock Johnny Limpdick is more accurate IMO

yeah, we have 6 months until the draft. we will start this thread again in january.

@mopaji said:The major flaw in your logic is that rookies can come in and make an immediate impact. Especially with OL and WRs. There is a reason that excellent stats and contributions are relative to a player's tenure in the league. "That's pretty good. For a rookie". Rookies' main jobs are to look, listen, and learn. They will develope. The fact that ANYBODY is pissed about our draft after 3 games is just baseless misdirected anger towards the team. He is obviously building for the future and so this thread should be post-poned until this time next year. Ben Roethlisberger came in and made an immediate impact going 15-1 his first season. These clowns have barely made it off the bench. Matt Stafford, Mark Sanchez, both have made high impact plays weekly for teams that weren't exactly overflowing with talent. Rookies are supposed to learn, but high value rookies are expected to learn as they play!

Oh my god we need tucker in a BAD way!!! He's my fav lineman

@chip-banks said:Okay. But the gold standard of NFL minds (Parcells) drafted Pat White in the second round. Was that because the Dolphins are so stacked they can blow picks on WildDawg complements? You can nit-pick almost anyone's draft picks 8 games into a season. Maclin, dropped into a terrific passing offense has 413 yards receiving to date to MoMass's 358. Getting the $$ of a pick an entire round ahead of MoMass. Percy Harvin has 422 yards . . . again as a complement to a terrific offense. Those guys have Favre and McNabb throwing to them as opposed to Anderson and Quinn and both have established receivers opposite them. Other first rounders? Darrius Heyward-Bey has 96 yards on the season. Kenny Britt has 351 yards Hakeem Nicks 407 yards MoMass is right there with most of these guys even on a bad offense. It's speculation to think what Robiskie might do on an Eagles team or what Harvin might do plopped into this offense with the O-line further degraded (minus Mack). As for Veikune, it is ridiculous to draw any conclusions considering the kid is a tweener learning two new positions. Here are the top DE to OLB tweeners in the 2009 draft and their production to date: Larry English, 16th overall pick 11 tackles. Robert Ayers, 18th overall pick, 8 tackles. Clint Stintm, second round before Veikune, 4 tackles. For comparison's sake, OLB Jason Trusnik has the same number of tackles as all these guys combined (22) in his limited playing time between the Jets and Browns. You can't judge a draft 9 weeks into the season. You are #1 Chip! I don't think you can judge a draft for at least a year and a half. With that said regarding Mangini's ability to judge talent, the defense looks pretty good and I can't help but notice he has 5 Jets guys over there. One is on IR now but he still leads the team in tackles. The offense? Two rookie WRs and a bunch of Savage's boys. And look at the results.

@solon16 said:Rex Ryan has the same team EM had... minus what... 6 players? They just beat the Pats.... Guys want to run through a wall for him. To me the difference is evident...obviously I'm alone in thinking this way....Right Minus the 6 players we got, and plus Mark Sanchez, Jim Leonhard, a healthy David Clowney, Shonn Greene (who hasn't done too too much) Bart Scott and Braylon Edwards. Having a viable quarterback, plus multiple receiving threats, and a great LB and Safety really go a long way toward having a great season.

@solon16 said:Caveat....You must Take a Qb and Be CORRECT! There we go. I don't think we're at the point of hoping Savage has/had blind-squirrel syndrome with Quinn, but I'm guessing Mangini's not finished with the meat cleaver yet, either.

@azbrowns said:I could just imagine Peterson running left behind Kevin Shaffer..... espeically in the AFC North.... SO COULD I!!!

@alendor said:the more i watch BE the more i agree. he can't run routes worth crap really. bad deep ball route that last game, and he always lets the defender get in front of him on those slants. I have to dissagree with you Alendor. Braylon's biggest strength is the hardest part of being a WR, he gets open A LOT! And then he drops it. He does let corners get in front of him on slants which should never happen when you have that large of a size advantage but those balls are also supposed to be thrown in the WR's gut, not his hands. Which I thought DA did a pretty good job with. Probably because that route also requires the QB to throw it hard and fast. Anyways, when they are thrown too far in front of the WR, the DB has a much easier time getting his hands in there to make a play because the path of the ball becomes seperation between the WR and the ball and that does half of the DB's job for him right there. But he does get open a whole lot. Finishing the play has been his biggest issue. And that deep route last game I thought was fine. If I were him I would have went inside with it also because there was WAAAY more space inside to make a play on the ball. The sideline is just one more defender. One of DA's "inaccurate" throws would have been inside where Braylon could have made a play on it or most likely drop it. But any reciever has a better chance against a DB than he does against a sideline.