Cardinals release WR DeAndre Hopkins
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I don't know about that. I think all teams start to blend in veterans as the team gets better.
I won't say our drafting has been great, but it hasn't been bad. As for development, I have never really bought in to that. In a win now league, teams can't develop players. Add in that most of these guys have been developed. Unlike other sports where you take some 18 year old and stick them in a G league or minor league, football doesn't do that. College football is a players developmental league. When they hit the NFL they better be ready to play.
Playing is the best form of development, and in the NFL, they don' play. It isn't realistic to expect a NFL coach to mold and develop a player who isn't ready to play.
While the league has been "win now" there's always been teams like the Browns, Jets, Texans, Lions and even the Bears that haven't had great ownerships and FOs to be up to the challenge of winning now. How many more episodes of the sequel do we need to watch to understand this? Isn't this why AB ended up in "save my ass'" mode whether it's fair or not? With his ass on the line - he's leaning heavily on veterans that have been developed on other teams as we've seen in trades and FA acquisitions. If someone here had the balls to DRAFT Watson or even Patrick Mahomes when the Browns had the 1st pick overall with a 1-15 record 1 year before they went passive aggressive for Baker Mayfield at #1 overall - we wouldn't have needed to give up so many 1st round picks and the salary would have had the rookie salary cap restriction on the 1st contract. No guts - no glory. Unfortunately for AB - he inherited that situation. This off season seemed like the 1st time our collective group on this board seamed really happy with his off-season efforts and we all seemed pretty happy with how AB drafted this year. Ironically, when AB and Stefanski had their least pressure to "win now" they went 11-5 in their 1st year together with a playoff win. Their winning percentages decreased in each season thereafter. With all of the money $ spent on veterans the last 2 years - we're at a "win now" or the FO and/or the Head Coach are gone. I can't lie though - I like their effort this year.
It's very realistic to expect the coaching staff to develop young players for the NFL game whether they're projected to start immediately or within a year or 2 (and in years past - even longer). We've had a undrafted guy that played some really good LT for us on the last playoff team we had in the 90s. He joined the team in 1988 out of Western Carolina, started at RT in 1990 and switched to LT in 1991 where he stayed until the team moved. He became a fan favorite here. At 1 point, his OL coach here was Kirk Ferentz. The same guy that became the HC for the Iowa Hawkeyes in the Big 10 and won consistently in spite of the recruiting attraction of cornfields and farm land. Anyway, Tony Jones ended up starting at LT for the Super Champion Denver Broncos. Meanwhile, we Orland Brown Sr (Zeus) was also and undrafted OT that finished the final 7 games on our 94 playoff team as the starting RT. Both Tackles were undrafted. While I agree today's game expedites the need to have them ready quicker - it's not like there's always an obvious LT ready to dominate like Joe Thomas falling on our lap at #3 overall. Our current LT (drafted at #10 overall) who played RT at Alabama - is lucky to have one of the best OL coaches in the league. However, he's still struggling so his development is ongoing.
We both agree experience is very important. Wyatt Teller only started the last 7 games of his 1st year filling in at LG in Buffalo because the starter went on IR. When that starter was projected to get his starting job back the next season - guess who became available to the Browns? Wyatt Teller who would end up moving to RG and fill our biggest weakness at the time. The same Austin Corbett that Cleveland drafted at #33 overall (before drafting Nick Chubb a few slots later) wasn't the emerge quickly kind of guy the Browns expected him to be. Consequently he left here with a lot of criticism from the fanbase fair or not. He went to another team before going to the LA Rams and starting at RG for the Super Bowl Champions. The more experience and development he got - the more he was ready for such a role. Having said that, I don't think he's even with the Rams any more.
Do I need to remind anyone what injury volumes have done to some of our teams that looked good on paper before training camp in the past? Young guys need to be ready at all times.... This is Cleveland so giddy up and get after it if your number is called!!!
While the league has been "win now" there's always been teams like the Browns, Jets, Texans, Lions and even the Bears that haven't had great ownerships and FOs to be up to the challenge of winning now. How many more episodes of the sequel do we need to watch to understand this? Isn't this why AB ended up in "save my ass'" mode whether it's fair or not? With his ass on the line - he's leaning heavily on veterans that have been developed on other teams as we've seen in trades and FA acquisitions. If someone here had the balls to DRAFT Watson or even Patrick Mahomes when the Browns had the 1st pick overall with a 1-15 record 1 year before they went passive aggressive for Baker Mayfield at #1 overall - we wouldn't have needed to give up so many 1st round picks and the salary would have had the rookie salary cap restriction on the 1st contract. No guts - no glory. Unfortunately for AB - he inherited that situation. This off season seemed like the 1st time our collective group on this board seamed really happy with his off-season efforts and we all seemed pretty happy with how AB drafted this year. Ironically, when AB and Stefanski had their least pressure to "win now" they went 11-5 in their 1st year together with a playoff win. Their winning percentages decreased in each season thereafter. With all of the money $ spent on veterans the last 2 years - we're at a "win now" or the FO and/or the Head Coach are gone. I can't lie though - I like their effort this year.
It's very realistic to expect the coaching staff to develop young players for the NFL game whether they're projected to start immediately or within a year or 2 (and in years past - even longer). We've had a undrafted guy that played some really good LT for us on the last playoff team we had in the 90s. He joined the team in 1988 out of Western Carolina, started at RT in 1990 and switched to LT in 1991 where he stayed until the team moved. He became a fan favorite here. At 1 point, his OL coach here was Kirk Ferentz. The same guy that became the HC for the Iowa Hawkeyes in the Big 10 and won consistently in spite of the recruiting attraction of cornfields and farm land. Anyway, Tony Jones ended up starting at LT for the Super Champion Denver Broncos. Meanwhile, we Orland Brown Sr (Zeus) was also and undrafted OT that finished the final 7 games on our 94 playoff team as the starting RT. Both Tackles were undrafted. While I agree today's game expedites the need to have them ready quicker - it's not like there's always an obvious LT ready to dominate like Joe Thomas falling on our lap at #3 overall. Our current LT (drafted at #10 overall) who played RT at Alabama - is lucky to have one of the best OL coaches in the league. However, he's still struggling so his development is ongoing.
We both agree experience is very important. Wyatt Teller only started the last 7 games of his 1st year filling in at LG in Buffalo because the starter went on IR. When that starter was projected to get his starting job back the next season - guess who became available to the Browns? Wyatt Teller who would end up moving to RG and fill our biggest weakness at the time. The same Austin Corbett that Cleveland drafted at #33 overall (before drafting Nick Chubb a few slots later) wasn't the emerge quickly kind of guy the Browns expected him to be. Consequently he left here with a lot of criticism from the fanbase fair or not. He went to another team before going to the LA Rams and starting at RG for the Super Bowl Champions. The more experience and development he got - the more he was ready for such a role. Having said that, I don't think he's even with the Rams any more.
Do I need to remind anyone what injury volumes have done to some of our teams that looked good on paper before training camp in the past? Young guys need to be ready at all times.... This is Cleveland so giddy up and get after it if your number is called!!!
So you are going to go back 30 years to talk about tony jones? You are forgetting a lot of guys before and since.
Playing is how guys develop...and some guys don't develop because they aren't all that good..
Heck, in some ways Wills has gone back in his play. So much for the OL coach making him better.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
While the league has been "win now" there's always been teams like the Browns, Jets, Texans, Lions and even the Bears that haven't had great ownerships and FOs to be up to the challenge of winning now. How many more episodes of the sequel do we need to watch to understand this? Isn't this why AB ended up in "save my ass'" mode whether it's fair or not? With his ass on the line - he's leaning heavily on veterans that have been developed on other teams as we've seen in trades and FA acquisitions. If someone here had the balls to DRAFT Watson or even Patrick Mahomes when the Browns had the 1st pick overall with a 1-15 record 1 year before they went passive aggressive for Baker Mayfield at #1 overall - we wouldn't have needed to give up so many 1st round picks and the salary would have had the rookie salary cap restriction on the 1st contract. No guts - no glory. Unfortunately for AB - he inherited that situation. This off season seemed like the 1st time our collective group on this board seamed really happy with his off-season efforts and we all seemed pretty happy with how AB drafted this year. Ironically, when AB and Stefanski had their least pressure to "win now" they went 11-5 in their 1st year together with a playoff win. Their winning percentages decreased in each season thereafter. With all of the money $ spent on veterans the last 2 years - we're at a "win now" or the FO and/or the Head Coach are gone. I can't lie though - I like their effort this year.
It's very realistic to expect the coaching staff to develop young players for the NFL game whether they're projected to start immediately or within a year or 2 (and in years past - even longer). We've had a undrafted guy that played some really good LT for us on the last playoff team we had in the 90s. He joined the team in 1988 out of Western Carolina, started at RT in 1990 and switched to LT in 1991 where he stayed until the team moved. He became a fan favorite here. At 1 point, his OL coach here was Kirk Ferentz. The same guy that became the HC for the Iowa Hawkeyes in the Big 10 and won consistently in spite of the recruiting attraction of cornfields and farm land. Anyway, Tony Jones ended up starting at LT for the Super Champion Denver Broncos. Meanwhile, we Orland Brown Sr (Zeus) was also and undrafted OT that finished the final 7 games on our 94 playoff team as the starting RT. Both Tackles were undrafted. While I agree today's game expedites the need to have them ready quicker - it's not like there's always an obvious LT ready to dominate like Joe Thomas falling on our lap at #3 overall. Our current LT (drafted at #10 overall) who played RT at Alabama - is lucky to have one of the best OL coaches in the league. However, he's still struggling so his development is ongoing.
We both agree experience is very important. Wyatt Teller only started the last 7 games of his 1st year filling in at LG in Buffalo because the starter went on IR. When that starter was projected to get his starting job back the next season - guess who became available to the Browns? Wyatt Teller who would end up moving to RG and fill our biggest weakness at the time. The same Austin Corbett that Cleveland drafted at #33 overall (before drafting Nick Chubb a few slots later) wasn't the emerge quickly kind of guy the Browns expected him to be. Consequently he left here with a lot of criticism from the fanbase fair or not. He went to another team before going to the LA Rams and starting at RG for the Super Bowl Champions. The more experience and development he got - the more he was ready for such a role. Having said that, I don't think he's even with the Rams any more.
Do I need to remind anyone what injury volumes have done to some of our teams that looked good on paper before training camp in the past? Young guys need to be ready at all times.... This is Cleveland so giddy up and get after it if your number is called!!!
So you are going to go back 30 years to talk about tony jones? You are forgetting a lot of guys before and since.
Playing is how guys develop...and some guys don't develop because they aren't all that good..
Heck, in some ways Wills has gone back in his play. So much for the OL coach making him better.
So you are going to go back 30 years to talk about tony jones? You are forgetting a lot of guys before and since.
Playing is how guys develop...and some guys don't develop because they aren't all that good..
Heck, in some ways Wills has gone back in his play. So much for the OL coach making him better.
I didn't mention Joe Thomas and bring up our current Left Tackle? I'm pretty sure I did if you look. I gotta be a little selective or I'm gonna bore you to a snore if I'm not already doing so. Cody Risien was drafted in round 7 in 1979 and eventually gave us 2 Pro Bowls at RT an played about 10 years. Paul Farren was drafted in 1983 out of Boston University in round 12 (that = undrafted today). When Rickey Bolden was injured in 1989 (and retired) - Farren took over as the starting Left Tackle for most of 89 and all of 1990 and 1991. Prior to this also filled in for injured starters at OG and could fill in at Center if needed. He was like Clay Matthews was to the LBers with the ability to play all positions well when injuries needed him to do so.
As for Wills, Coaches aren't miracle workers. They're coaches. Our line is pretty good otherwise. 2 pro Bowl Guards, Pocic and when Conklin is healthy - he been pretty good (which is why he got a generous extension this year) for what it's worth.
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- How many WR's do we keep after cuts?
better spot as any....
Here's what I believe is the biggest rust chip that has to fall off Watson in 2023..
The reality for the Browns is, given Watson’s skill -- especially with his feet -- ideal pass catchers need to be able to improvise, especially in the scramble drill, and have that X-factor connection that allows Watson to throw them open. You can’t know who is going to be best at those things until you throw different options with different strengths -- whether it be speed, size, contested catch ability, route running or familiarity -- into the offense.
start at 1:05 (no OL/DL matters)
What failed ?
1) No! this OL was no better than Houston's at protecting/preparing for off scheduled plays on game days
2) Andy Reid/Maholmes would have sent WR's to the bench that gave up on scramble plays like our WR's did last season... hoping AB has found the right mix of WR's
When those pads come on? Watson & fire-drill WR's, that can get to open zones quickly is what I'll be watching for ? we still may find a sleepers out of this WR mix
better spot as any....
Here's what I believe is the biggest rust chip that has to fall off Watson in 2023..
The reality for the Browns is, given Watson’s skill -- especially with his feet -- ideal pass catchers need to be able to improvise, especially in the scramble drill, and have that X-factor connection that allows Watson to throw them open. You can’t know who is going to be best at those things until you throw different options with different strengths -- whether it be speed, size, contested catch ability, route running or familiarity -- into the offense.
start at 1:05 (no OL/DL matters)
What failed ?
1) No! this OL was no better than Houston's at protecting/preparing for off scheduled plays on game days
2) Andy Reid/Maholmes would have sent WR's to the bench that gave up on scramble plays like our WR's did last season... hoping AB has found the right mix of WR's
When those pads come on? Watson & fire-drill WR's, that can get to open zones quickly is what I'll be watching for ? we still may find a sleepers out of this WR mix
I still find it stupid that a few feel our wr's were just fine, it was all the previous quarterbacks' fault if things didn't go well on offense.
Now those few are as quiet as stoned church mice on sunday monring with wr's being brought in to help the "qb" be successful.
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I was worried you were getting soft in those 1st 2 sentences before you settled in and delivered. Then you added in Steve Heiden for good measure.
You approached that like Mel's Kiper with rougher edges and a little more accuracy. Well done!
I just gave what I thought was a brutally honest assessment.. As Bill once said... "I can only go by what I see..." I mean in one vein.. I can appreciate the physical specimen Njoku is.. But to me... He's a slacker who underachieves , and tries to make it on ability alone... That's just not good enough IMHO.. Then I remember guys like Milt Morin. Then guys like Scott Gailbraith who tried really hard.. Although Milt Morin was the best thing we had until Ozzie came along... And Morin was really good.. I would be thankful for a Morin type but in todays NFL TE framework if that makes sense...
I just gave what I thought was a brutally honest assessment.. As Bill once said... "I can only go by what I see..." I mean in one vein.. I can appreciate the physical specimen Njoku is.. But to me... He's a slacker who underachieves , and tries to make it on ability alone...
5.17 % drop rate on catches (career, season low)
3.75% of drops of total targets (career, season low)
2nd most targets in a season (80)
Highest percentage of targets caught in a season (72.5)
Tied career high in rec yards
Highest season ypg. That despite being 2nd lowest in YP receiving average a game. Tell us he's doing more dirty work underneath, attacking linebackers and playing much more sharp in short spaces where there's more traffic.
He's gone from a bottom 1/3, to a top 5 pass block rating either flexed or inline from the TE position. You're welcomed to go back and find posts from 2017 and 2018 where I said his blocking and block rating was highly questionable. Its gone from liability to welcomed skill set.
None of these things, but most especially the serious improvement in block grading, happen if you're a "slacker". Blocking takes effort, intensity and technique. David has seriously improved on all 3. The contrast seems to be your primary issue - in a league with Kelce, Andrews, Kittle.... it's difficult to stand out when you see players that damn dominant in the same position group. Njoku isn't dominant not for a lack of ability or a lack of trying, but a lack of volume and play style.
After bouncing back from an injury filled 2019, a slow 2020 and a QB plagued 2021, 2022 should absolutely be viewed as a pretty damn good year, considering, again, the QB situation. Which might have been stable 3/4 of the season, but was far from spectacular. Hell, it wasn't even above average.
With an above average QB season, not great, not even good.... The kid is knocking on the door of a 100 target, 70 catch 2023. That's literally how the stats expand with just a hair more target volume.
Your assessment is rooted in your feeling only, not at all supported by any evidence. I'd suggest going back, watching more of his snaps and re-assessing your opinion.
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I just gave what I thought was a brutally honest assessment.. As Bill once said... "I can only go by what I see..." I mean in one vein.. I can appreciate the physical specimen Njoku is.. But to me... He's a slacker who underachieves , and tries to make it on ability alone...
5.17 % drop rate on catches (career, season low)
3.75% of drops of total targets (career, season low)
2nd most targets in a season (80)
Highest percentage of targets caught in a season (72.5)
Tied career high in rec yards
Highest season ypg. That despite being 2nd lowest in YP receiving average a game. Tell us he's doing more dirty work underneath, attacking linebackers and playing much more sharp in short spaces where there's more traffic.
He's gone from a bottom 1/3, to a top 5 pass block rating either flexed or inline from the TE position. You're welcomed to go back and find posts from 2017 and 2018 where I said his blocking and block rating was highly questionable. Its gone from liability to welcomed skill set.
None of these things, but most especially the serious improvement in block grading, happen if you're a "slacker". Blocking takes effort, intensity and technique. David has seriously improved on all 3. The contrast seems to be your primary issue - in a league with Kelce, Andrews, Kittle.... it's difficult to stand out when you see players that damn dominant in the same position group. Njoku isn't dominant not for a lack of ability or a lack of trying, but a lack of volume and play style.
After bouncing back from an injury filled 2019, a slow 2020 and a QB plagued 2021, 2022 should absolutely be viewed as a pretty damn good year, considering, again, the QB situation. Which might have been stable 3/4 of the season, but was far from spectacular. Hell, it wasn't even above average.
With an above average QB season, not great, not even good.... The kid is knocking on the door of a 100 target, 70 catch 2023. That's literally how the stats expand with just a hair more target volume.
Your assessment is rooted in your feeling only, not at all supported by any evidence. I'd suggest going back, watching more of his snaps and re-assessing your opinion.
5.17 % drop rate on catches (career, season low)
3.75% of drops of total targets (career, season low)
2nd most targets in a season (80)
Highest percentage of targets caught in a season (72.5)
Tied career high in rec yards
Highest season ypg. That despite being 2nd lowest in YP receiving average a game. Tell us he's doing more dirty work underneath, attacking linebackers and playing much more sharp in short spaces where there's more traffic.
He's gone from a bottom 1/3, to a top 5 pass block rating either flexed or inline from the TE position. You're welcomed to go back and find posts from 2017 and 2018 where I said his blocking and block rating was highly questionable. Its gone from liability to welcomed skill set.
None of these things, but most especially the serious improvement in block grading, happen if you're a "slacker". Blocking takes effort, intensity and technique. David has seriously improved on all 3. The contrast seems to be your primary issue - in a league with Kelce, Andrews, Kittle.... it's difficult to stand out when you see players that damn dominant in the same position group. Njoku isn't dominant not for a lack of ability or a lack of trying, but a lack of volume and play style.
After bouncing back from an injury filled 2019, a slow 2020 and a QB plagued 2021, 2022 should absolutely be viewed as a pretty damn good year, considering, again, the QB situation. Which might have been stable 3/4 of the season, but was far from spectacular. Hell, it wasn't even above average.
With an above average QB season, not great, not even good.... The kid is knocking on the door of a 100 target, 70 catch 2023. That's literally how the stats expand with just a hair more target volume.
Your assessment is rooted in your feeling only, not at all supported by any evidence. I'd suggest going back, watching more of his snaps and re-assessing your opinion.
??? Sorry dude.. I don't work on feelings... He's good.. I didn't say he was garbage... But lets be honest.. Hes not Ozzy, Kellen Winslow Sr Or Todd Christiansen.. He maybe a bit better than average.. Quit making excuses for him... He hasn't set the world on fire..And for God sakes... I suggest you take your arrogant attitude and cram it up your ass... Comprende?
Nickers...."There are no old running QB's in the NFL "~Sam Rutigliano~ -
- How many WR's do we keep after cuts?
better spot as any....
Here's what I believe is the biggest rust chip that has to fall off Watson in 2023..
The reality for the Browns is, given Watson’s skill -- especially with his feet -- ideal pass catchers need to be able to improvise, especially in the scramble drill, and have that X-factor connection that allows Watson to throw them open. You can’t know who is going to be best at those things until you throw different options with different strengths -- whether it be speed, size, contested catch ability, route running or familiarity -- into the offense.
start at 1:05 (no OL/DL matters)
What failed ?
1) No! this OL was no better than Houston's at protecting/preparing for off scheduled plays on game days
2) Andy Reid/Maholmes would have sent WR's to the bench that gave up on scramble plays like our WR's did last season... hoping AB has found the right mix of WR's
When those pads come on? Watson & fire-drill WR's, that can get to open zones quickly is what I'll be watching for ? we still may find a sleepers out of this WR mix
2) Andy Reid/Maholmes would have sent WR's to the bench that gave up on scramble plays like our WR's did last season...
My grandboys are currently playing in their second season of flag football (ages 7 & 9). When I'm QBying with them in the yard, I always tell them, After your pass route, you can't just stand there like a mope! You have to 'help the QB'. Come back towards him to an open spot. Wave your arms! Get his attention. Get open! Give him somebody to throw the ball to!
- You want me to stop by Browns practice someday for a tutorial? Just let me know.
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better spot as any....
Here's what I believe is the biggest rust chip that has to fall off Watson in 2023..
The reality for the Browns is, given Watson’s skill -- especially with his feet -- ideal pass catchers need to be able to improvise, especially in the scramble drill, and have that X-factor connection that allows Watson to throw them open. You can’t know who is going to be best at those things until you throw different options with different strengths -- whether it be speed, size, contested catch ability, route running or familiarity -- into the offense.
start at 1:05 (no OL/DL matters)
What failed ?
1) No! this OL was no better than Houston's at protecting/preparing for off scheduled plays on game days
2) Andy Reid/Maholmes would have sent WR's to the bench that gave up on scramble plays like our WR's did last season... hoping AB has found the right mix of WR's
When those pads come on? Watson & fire-drill WR's, that can get to open zones quickly is what I'll be watching for ? we still may find a sleepers out of this WR mix
I still find it stupid that a few feel our wr's were just fine, it was all the previous quarterbacks' fault if things didn't go well on offense.
Now those few are as quiet as stoned church mice on sunday monring with wr's being brought in to help the "qb" be successful.
I still find it stupid that a few feel our wr's were just fine, it was all the previous quarterbacks' fault if things didn't go well on offense.
Now those few are as quiet as stoned church mice on sunday monring with wr's being brought in to help the "qb" be successful.
NFL rosters change over a two year period.
But please keep regurgitating the same post over and over and over because your love for Baker Mayfield must be defended until your last breath.
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5.17 % drop rate on catches (career, season low)
3.75% of drops of total targets (career, season low)
2nd most targets in a season (80)
Highest percentage of targets caught in a season (72.5)
Tied career high in rec yards
Highest season ypg. That despite being 2nd lowest in YP receiving average a game. Tell us he's doing more dirty work underneath, attacking linebackers and playing much more sharp in short spaces where there's more traffic.
He's gone from a bottom 1/3, to a top 5 pass block rating either flexed or inline from the TE position. You're welcomed to go back and find posts from 2017 and 2018 where I said his blocking and block rating was highly questionable. Its gone from liability to welcomed skill set.
None of these things, but most especially the serious improvement in block grading, happen if you're a "slacker". Blocking takes effort, intensity and technique. David has seriously improved on all 3. The contrast seems to be your primary issue - in a league with Kelce, Andrews, Kittle.... it's difficult to stand out when you see players that damn dominant in the same position group. Njoku isn't dominant not for a lack of ability or a lack of trying, but a lack of volume and play style.
After bouncing back from an injury filled 2019, a slow 2020 and a QB plagued 2021, 2022 should absolutely be viewed as a pretty damn good year, considering, again, the QB situation. Which might have been stable 3/4 of the season, but was far from spectacular. Hell, it wasn't even above average.
With an above average QB season, not great, not even good.... The kid is knocking on the door of a 100 target, 70 catch 2023. That's literally how the stats expand with just a hair more target volume.
Your assessment is rooted in your feeling only, not at all supported by any evidence. I'd suggest going back, watching more of his snaps and re-assessing your opinion.
??? Sorry dude.. I don't work on feelings... He's good.. I didn't say he was garbage... But lets be honest.. Hes not Ozzy, Kellen Winslow Sr Or Todd Christiansen.. He maybe a bit better than average.. Quit making excuses for him... He hasn't set the world on fire..And for God sakes... I suggest you take your arrogant attitude and cram it up your ass... Comprende?
-
While the league has been "win now" there's always been teams like the Browns, Jets, Texans, Lions and even the Bears that haven't had great ownerships and FOs to be up to the challenge of winning now. How many more episodes of the sequel do we need to watch to understand this? Isn't this why AB ended up in "save my ass'" mode whether it's fair or not? With his ass on the line - he's leaning heavily on veterans that have been developed on other teams as we've seen in trades and FA acquisitions. If someone here had the balls to DRAFT Watson or even Patrick Mahomes when the Browns had the 1st pick overall with a 1-15 record 1 year before they went passive aggressive for Baker Mayfield at #1 overall - we wouldn't have needed to give up so many 1st round picks and the salary would have had the rookie salary cap restriction on the 1st contract. No guts - no glory. Unfortunately for AB - he inherited that situation. This off season seemed like the 1st time our collective group on this board seamed really happy with his off-season efforts and we all seemed pretty happy with how AB drafted this year. Ironically, when AB and Stefanski had their least pressure to "win now" they went 11-5 in their 1st year together with a playoff win. Their winning percentages decreased in each season thereafter. With all of the money $ spent on veterans the last 2 years - we're at a "win now" or the FO and/or the Head Coach are gone. I can't lie though - I like their effort this year.
It's very realistic to expect the coaching staff to develop young players for the NFL game whether they're projected to start immediately or within a year or 2 (and in years past - even longer). We've had a undrafted guy that played some really good LT for us on the last playoff team we had in the 90s. He joined the team in 1988 out of Western Carolina, started at RT in 1990 and switched to LT in 1991 where he stayed until the team moved. He became a fan favorite here. At 1 point, his OL coach here was Kirk Ferentz. The same guy that became the HC for the Iowa Hawkeyes in the Big 10 and won consistently in spite of the recruiting attraction of cornfields and farm land. Anyway, Tony Jones ended up starting at LT for the Super Champion Denver Broncos. Meanwhile, we Orland Brown Sr (Zeus) was also and undrafted OT that finished the final 7 games on our 94 playoff team as the starting RT. Both Tackles were undrafted. While I agree today's game expedites the need to have them ready quicker - it's not like there's always an obvious LT ready to dominate like Joe Thomas falling on our lap at #3 overall. Our current LT (drafted at #10 overall) who played RT at Alabama - is lucky to have one of the best OL coaches in the league. However, he's still struggling so his development is ongoing.
We both agree experience is very important. Wyatt Teller only started the last 7 games of his 1st year filling in at LG in Buffalo because the starter went on IR. When that starter was projected to get his starting job back the next season - guess who became available to the Browns? Wyatt Teller who would end up moving to RG and fill our biggest weakness at the time. The same Austin Corbett that Cleveland drafted at #33 overall (before drafting Nick Chubb a few slots later) wasn't the emerge quickly kind of guy the Browns expected him to be. Consequently he left here with a lot of criticism from the fanbase fair or not. He went to another team before going to the LA Rams and starting at RG for the Super Bowl Champions. The more experience and development he got - the more he was ready for such a role. Having said that, I don't think he's even with the Rams any more.
Do I need to remind anyone what injury volumes have done to some of our teams that looked good on paper before training camp in the past? Young guys need to be ready at all times.... This is Cleveland so giddy up and get after it if your number is called!!!
So you are going to go back 30 years to talk about tony jones? You are forgetting a lot of guys before and since.
Playing is how guys develop...and some guys don't develop because they aren't all that good..
Heck, in some ways Wills has gone back in his play. So much for the OL coach making him better.
So you are going to go back 30 years to talk about tony jones? You are forgetting a lot of guys before and since.
Playing is how guys develop...and some guys don't develop because they aren't all that good..
Heck, in some ways Wills has gone back in his play. So much for the OL coach making him better.
Now for your 2nd points above. Have you ever participated in an Okie Drill or even seen one? You play when you practice and you'd know that if you ever played. On all levels, you prove yourself worthy of starting or situational reps in practice first before you can be trusted in a game. Then you have scrimmages and preseason games.
Are you really blaming the Oline Coach for the lack of passion Wills plays with? Seems to me guys like Pocic, Teller, Bitonio and Conklin (who's played through injuries) all play with enough passion to make coaches, teammates and fans confident in them. @tiamat63 and me looked at some film of Wills a couple months ago. We looked at a 3rd year guy that couldn't even get in a good stance on a consistent basis. ANY Offensive Lineman that wants to succeed gets this down first or he's going to run into a lot of trouble with his base and footwork. This impacts his positioning, balance and if he's vulnerable to over extension. When I played and then later coached at the high school level, we spent a lot of time on stances and starts. Football is all about getting there 1st especially on the OL. Having said that, you also have to do this with an ideal pad height and good base.
We agree experience is important for however long that'll last...
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So you are going to go back 30 years to talk about tony jones? You are forgetting a lot of guys before and since.
Playing is how guys develop...and some guys don't develop because they aren't all that good..
Heck, in some ways Wills has gone back in his play. So much for the OL coach making him better.
Now for your 2nd points above. Have you ever participated in an Okie Drill or even seen one? You play when you practice and you'd know that if you ever played. On all levels, you prove yourself worthy of starting or situational reps in practice first before you can be trusted in a game. Then you have scrimmages and preseason games.
Are you really blaming the Oline Coach for the lack of passion Wills plays with? Seems to me guys like Pocic, Teller, Bitonio and Conklin (who's played through injuries) all play with enough passion to make coaches, teammates and fans confident in them. @tiamat63 and me looked at some film of Wills a couple months ago. We looked at a 3rd year guy that couldn't even get in a good stance on a consistent basis. ANY Offensive Lineman that wants to succeed gets this down first or he's going to run into a lot of trouble with his base and footwork. This impacts his positioning, balance and if he's vulnerable to over extension. When I played and then later coached at the high school level, we spent a lot of time on stances and starts. Football is all about getting there 1st especially on the OL. Having said that, you also have to do this with an ideal pad height and good base.
We agree experience is important for however long that'll last...
Now for your 2nd points above. Have you ever participated in an Okie Drill or even seen one? You play when you practice and you'd know that if you ever played. On all levels, you prove yourself worthy of starting or situational reps in practice first before you can be trusted in a game. Then you have scrimmages and preseason games.
Are you really blaming the Oline Coach for the lack of passion Wills plays with? Seems to me guys like Pocic, Teller, Bitonio and Conklin (who's played through injuries) all play with enough passion to make coaches, teammates and fans confident in them. @tiamat63 and me looked at some film of Wills a couple months ago. We looked at a 3rd year guy that couldn't even get in a good stance on a consistent basis. ANY Offensive Lineman that wants to succeed gets this down first or he's going to run into a lot of trouble with his base and footwork. This impacts his positioning, balance and if he's vulnerable to over extension. When I played and then later coached at the high school level, we spent a lot of time on stances and starts. Football is all about getting there 1st especially on the OL. Having said that, you also have to do this with an ideal pad height and good base.
We agree experience is important for however long that'll last...
Yes,I have.
You make my point. Those guys don't get to play. Running in an Okie, hamburger, or what ever name you want to use isn't playing. Practice isn't playing. That is why I say the NFL doesn't develop players. They plug and play players.
Some may not play year one...but the benefit of that year is mostly going through the NFL routine. So in that respect it is development.
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Now for your 2nd points above. Have you ever participated in an Okie Drill or even seen one? You play when you practice and you'd know that if you ever played. On all levels, you prove yourself worthy of starting or situational reps in practice first before you can be trusted in a game. Then you have scrimmages and preseason games.
Are you really blaming the Oline Coach for the lack of passion Wills plays with? Seems to me guys like Pocic, Teller, Bitonio and Conklin (who's played through injuries) all play with enough passion to make coaches, teammates and fans confident in them. @tiamat63 and me looked at some film of Wills a couple months ago. We looked at a 3rd year guy that couldn't even get in a good stance on a consistent basis. ANY Offensive Lineman that wants to succeed gets this down first or he's going to run into a lot of trouble with his base and footwork. This impacts his positioning, balance and if he's vulnerable to over extension. When I played and then later coached at the high school level, we spent a lot of time on stances and starts. Football is all about getting there 1st especially on the OL. Having said that, you also have to do this with an ideal pad height and good base.
We agree experience is important for however long that'll last...
Yes,I have.
You make my point. Those guys don't get to play. Running in an Okie, hamburger, or what ever name you want to use isn't playing. Practice isn't playing. That is why I say the NFL doesn't develop players. They plug and play players.
Some may not play year one...but the benefit of that year is mostly going through the NFL routine. So in that respect it is development.
Yes,I have.
You make my point. Those guys don't get to play. Running in an Okie, hamburger, or what ever name you want to use isn't playing. Practice isn't playing. That is why I say the NFL doesn't develop players. They plug and play players.
Some may not play year one...but the benefit of that year is mostly going through the NFL routine. So in that respect it is development.
Okay. Here's a video that sums up our time together in this conversation:
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
haahah you so funny. maybe some day you will come up with something new
And maybe one day you'll find courage and quit drinking... But somehow.. I doubt it
Nickers...."There are no old running QB's in the NFL "~Sam Rutigliano~ -
Yes,I have.
You make my point. Those guys don't get to play. Running in an Okie, hamburger, or what ever name you want to use isn't playing. Practice isn't playing. That is why I say the NFL doesn't develop players. They plug and play players.
Some may not play year one...but the benefit of that year is mostly going through the NFL routine. So in that respect it is development.
Okay. Here's a video that sums up our time together in this conversation:
Okay. Here's a video that sums up our time together in this conversation:
Apparently "spare time" is quite the thing around here. LOL!?
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Back to the topic at hand.
Outkick posted some odds courtesy of Draftkings Sportsbook?:
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I'm thinking D Hop is looking for a payday, not a contender, or he'd be signed by now.
Karlis Missed -
I'm thinking D Hop is looking for a payday, not a contender, or he'd be signed by now.
And we don't need to be giving some dude in his twilight a payday...
Nickers...."There are no old running QB's in the NFL "~Sam Rutigliano~ -
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I'm thinking D Hop is looking for a payday, not a contender, or he'd be signed by now.
I bet he doesn't want to contend with TC.....and waits a while. ( IOW, he's gonna sign with someone tomorrow )
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
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