Farmer - Year One upgrades.....
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So....In summary.....my take is that in only ONE YEAR, Farmer has successfully updraded almost every single position group....the only exceptions being at QB and OLB.....
Totally agree and nice post Mudfly.
So....In summary.....my take is that in only ONE YEAR, Farmer has successfully updraded almost every single position group....the only exceptions being at QB and OLB.....
Totally agree and nice post Mudfly.
I think that is fair to say....with the possible exception also of TE.
I think the Browns will be addressing the TE position as early as round 2-3......and also the DLine.....and LB.
A DL/OLB/TE with those 3 picks in the top 43 would definitely add strength and depth
....that is if they don't go all in and trade them all to move up for Mariota. And that could be the debate in the war room as we speak:
"Should we trade #12/19/43 to move up to #2" I think they are asking that question right now.
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So....In summary.....my take is that in only ONE YEAR, Farmer has successfully updraded almost every single position group....the only exceptions being at QB and OLB.....
Totally agree and nice post Mudfly.
I think that is fair to say....with the possible exception also of TE.
I think the Browns will be addressing the TE position as early as round 2-3......and also the DLine.....and LB.
A DL/OLB/TE with those 3 picks in the top 43 would definitely add strength and depth
....that is if they don't go all in and trade them all to move up for Mariota. And that could be the debate in the war room as we speak:
"Should we trade #12/19/43 to move up to #2" I think they are asking that question right now.
"Should we trade #12/19/43 to move up to #2" ................................I think they are asking that question right now.
Unless it was a complete bluff, Farmer pretty much answered that question at yesterdays pressy.....with a fairly solid NO..
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Whatever the Browns do, I'm going to know it was the right, very cool, smar thing to do.
White-Beasely-Dupree/Shelton, Shelton/Beasely-Dupree-somebody else, OT....
This draft goes great, it will change the dynamics of the Browns
like we haven't seen before.
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On yesterday's Kiper/McShay Mock draft they had the Browns taking Shelton and Andrus Peat and 12 and 19.
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On yesterday's Kiper/McShay Mock draft they had the Browns taking Shelton and Andrus Peat and 12 and 19.
On yesterday's Kiper/McShay Mock draft they had the Browns taking Shelton and Andrus Peat and 12 and 19.
saw that.
i've also seen a bazzillion other mocks on espn/nfl network where we take parker @12 and brown @19.
shelton and peat trump that hand everyday.
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Note:(loss) Not feeling it here and the main reason Im thinking edge rusher - olb at #12 Mud
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Nice job on the op ! But there are edge rushers aplenty in this draft. Dupree might be there...
Yeah...I really shoulda said 12 or 19....would be oh so happy to take Shelton at 12......as long as they handle business at 19 with a Dupree type....
But Im seeing a lot of folks mocking Shelton....then using 19(and even our 2nd) for OT, OG and WR.....
and completely leaving edge rusher out of the equation........which just makes me itch......bad
I seriously question if I can even survive the next 7 days.......haven't done ANY work for like 3 days.....just sitting here waiting for the commish to officially open the draft.....
But Im seeing a lot of folks mocking Shelton....then using 19(and even our 2nd) for OT, OG and WR.....and completely leaving edge rusher out of the equation....
....which just makes me itch......bad
On yesterday's Kiper/McShay Mock draft they had the Browns taking Shelton and Andrus Peat and 12 and 19.
i've also seen a bazzillion other mocks on espn/nfl network where we take parker @12 and brown @19.
see???? This is exactly the shit Im talking about......makes me itch every time......
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I think (and hope) Orchard plays into the Browns plans for 43.
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But Im seeing a lot of folks mocking Shelton....then using 19(and even our 2nd) for OT, OG and WR.....and completely leaving edge rusher out of the equation....
....which just makes me itch......bad
On yesterday's Kiper/McShay Mock draft they had the Browns taking Shelton and Andrus Peat and 12 and 19.
i've also seen a bazzillion other mocks on espn/nfl network where we take parker @12 and brown @19.
see???? This is exactly the shit Im talking about......makes me itch every time......
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On yesterday's Kiper/McShay Mock draft they had the Browns taking Shelton and Andrus Peat and 12 and 19.
On yesterday's Kiper/McShay Mock draft they had the Browns taking Shelton and Andrus Peat and 12 and 19.
They talked about possible take of Cam Erving at 19 and thought Cam would have been the better pick being universal on the OL..
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great positivity! can you do one of these each day BEFORE the draft? (cuz this is the time where there is nothing really to talk about and fans start scratching each other's eyes out over different opinions of players to be had)
i think mingo and gilbert become all pros this year.
What is Gipson's status, has he signed his tender?great positivity! can you do one of these each day BEFORE the draft? (cuz this is the time where there is nothing really to talk about and fans start scratching each other's eyes out over different opinions of players to be had)
i think mingo and gilbert become all pros this year.
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What is Gipson's status, has he signed his tender?great positivity! can you do one of these each day BEFORE the draft? (cuz this is the time where there is nothing really to talk about and fans start scratching each other's eyes out over different opinions of players to be had)
i think mingo and gilbert become all pros this year.
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Maybe we should think about a decent reliable kicker. Often ignored, very important
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I think your evaluation is too pro 2015 group. You used hindsight to lower the 2013 grade and ceilings to boost the 2015 grades
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I think your evaluation is too pro 2015 group. You used hindsight to lower the 2013 grade and ceilings to boost the 2015 grades
I think your evaluation is too pro 2015 group. You used hindsight to lower the 2013 grade and ceilings to boost the 2015 grades
Ok fair enough...Id say hindsight is a good tool for rating the past though. And "estimates" are all i got for the future.....
Simply comparing "what we know"(hindsight included) to see which position groups got better....
I said WR -DB- RB- MLB got better
OL- DL got only 1 player better
TE -QB stayed about the same....
and OLB got worse.....
So rather than just saying Im wrong then leaving, how about saying which ones you disagree with? and how would you change them? and if your not using hindsight or speculation, how did you come to it?....curious
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Maybe we should think about a decent reliable kicker. Often ignored, very important
I hope we do. In the Indy game that we lost 25-24 Cundiff missed a 40 yard field goal which cost us big time as well missing field goals in 5 straight games going into the Colts game. I like Hartley but he just does not have the leg strength.
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Kudos to mudfly for a quality post!!! It is breaking thru the cloud of pessimism surrounding the Browns. He'll even I was lost in it for a while.
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Ok....1 week to go before we get a few more to add to the list.......decided to look back 1 year and see where our roster was when Farmer got it VS where it is today....listing just the key players here(not every singe one).....
Ill start with the biggest turnover and work down to the least......
Wide Receiver 2013: Little - Bess - Gordon - Benjiman - Cooper
Wide Receiver 2015: Bowe- Hartline - Hawkins - Gabriel - Benjiman
Note: (Win). Definite upgrade here. Only drop off is Gordon and thats not on the Farmer...
Quarterback 2013: Weeden - Campbell - Hoyer
Quarterback 2015: McCown - Manziel - Shaw
Note:(Wash) Ill give Famrer a tiny credit for "upside", as there is a sliver of hope for the current group, while not so much for the last one.....
Running Back 2013: McGahee - Whittaker - Oby
Running Back 2015: West - Crowell - Winston - Draughn
Note: (Win) Definite upgrade here too.
Tight-end 2013: Cameron - Barnidge - Gray
Tight-end 2015: Housler - Barnidge - Drey
Note: (Wash) This one is close, but knowing what I know now, Id pick the current group by a nose.
Cornerback 2013: Haden - Skrine - McFadden - Owens
Cornerback 2015: Haden - T. Williams - K. Williams - Desir - Gilbert
Note: (Win) Slam dunk win here! Build the best CB group in one year
Safety 2013: Gipson - Ward
Safety 2015: Gipson - Whitner
Note:(win) Another nice upgrade.
Inside Linebacker 2013: Jackson - Robertson - Eubanks
Inside Linebacker 2015: Dansby - Robertson - Kirksey
Note: (Win) Yet another upgrade and step in the right direction
Outside Linebacker 2013: Kruger - Mingo - Sheard
Outside Linebacker 2015: Kruger - Mingo - Solomon - (A. Bryant?)
Note:(loss) Not feeling it here and the main reason Im thinking edge rusher - olb at #12
D-Line 2013: Ruben - D. Bryant - Taylor - Hughes - Winn - A. Bryant
D-Line 2015: Starks - D. Bryant - Taylor - Hughes - Winn - A. Bryant
Note:(slight win) Ok, Ill take Starks and let Rubin go. Understand this was considered a strength when Farmer took over. Time for some upgrades here.
O-Line 2013: Thomas - Greco - Mack - Lauvao - Schwartz
O-Line 2015: Thomas - Greco - Mack - Bitonio - Schwartz
Note: (win)....only one man added, but a damn good one! Time for depth.
So....In summary.....my take is that in only ONE YEAR, Farmer has successfully updraded almost every single position group....the only exceptions being at QB and OLB.....
I think it's pretty obvious you cant manufacture a great QB just because you need one....and I think Farmer has at least made an effort.....completely turning the position over in an attempt to find gold....a little credit is due for that....
And, I see the drop at OLB simply because we are between players.....IE: Sheard left and no one has filled the spot....so, that will happen soon and Im hoping the new guy will be an upgrade...eh?
The best upgrades have happened at: WR - DB - RB - MLB....
Now looking for some more upgrades at: DL - OLB - QB - OL(depth)
Safety 2013: Gipson - Ward
Safety 2015: Gipson - Whitner
Note:(win) Another nice upgrade.
Great stuff!
Just a piggyback and some random thoughts here:
IMO, the difference between Whitner and Ward as well as the difference between Pettine's back-end coverage philosophy and the previous one - enabled us to witness a Pro Bowl season from Gipson. Love our Safeties; BUT adding depth here might not be a bad idea considering Whitner's age and the injury that ended Gipson's 2014 season prematurely.
I'm not sure the supply of answers at QB meets our demand - so why not continue to try to make this an easier team to QB? When McCown played for an easier team to QB in Chicago - he easily outplayed the Jay Cutler that was holding their salary cap hostage. When he went to the Tampa Bay offense that ranked 31st at running the football for much of 2014 - he blended in with stink, stank, stunk... Moral of the story, is the chance to lead a balanced attack is better than starting every play with 1 hand tied behind the back.
Farmer's understanding that you just can't replace Alex Mack with anybody was much needed evolution in our front office. Using a similar philosophical current, it was also refreshing to see a need to prioritize what we put inside our offensive tackles on both sides of Center. All the while we had Steinbach here, we were really good/consistent at running between the tackles and getting interior linemen to the next level of defense. We were also killer good at pulling and trapping. Even the Hank Fraley that Philly had already demoted to 2nd string came here; and was able to pull from his Center position which was as unique as it was impressive back in 2007. Talk about a pleasant surprise. Anyway, I'm very thankful we have a front office mindset that knows the importance of adding a Bitonio.
Best of all, Farmer showed me an actual philosophical plan where his ego didn't over-rule input from a head coach/coaching staff he's counting on for make it happen. I saw a strategy that seemed to have clear-cut objectives to improve running game and pass defense coupled with the balls to stick to it. Anytime we hear "play like a Brown" just look at a team that got to 6-3 and even 7-4 despite how FUBAR our injury volume got coming off only 4 wins in 2013. There were no excuses as the competitive bar significantly improved to several playoff caliber opponents needing to erase late second half leads like Baltimore, Indy, Carolina or break 4th quarter ties with FGs as time expired like Baltimore and Pittsburgh needed to (thanks to narcolepsy on our STs). If we add a play maker, we might even pull out more close games by turning an expected short gain into an unexpected long TD the way Torrey Smith or Indy's WRs were able to exploit tired legs late (after being contained most of the day). Our DBs had anywhere from a 10k to a half marathon on their legs in the 4th quarter vrs Indy.
It's refreshing to have confidence in our front office and staff heading into a draft.
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Safety 2013: Gipson - Ward
Safety 2015: Gipson - Whitner
Note:(win) Another nice upgrade.
Great stuff!
Just a piggyback and some random thoughts here:
IMO, the difference between Whitner and Ward as well as the difference between Pettine's back-end coverage philosophy and the previous one - enabled us to witness a Pro Bowl season from Gipson. Love our Safeties; BUT adding depth here might not be a bad idea considering Whitner's age and the injury that ended Gipson's 2014 season prematurely.
I'm not sure the supply of answers at QB meets our demand - so why not continue to try to make this an easier team to QB? When McCown played for an easier team to QB in Chicago - he easily outplayed the Jay Cutler that was holding their salary cap hostage. When he went to the Tampa Bay offense that ranked 31st at running the football for much of 2014 - he blended in with stink, stank, stunk... Moral of the story, is the chance to lead a balanced attack is better than starting every play with 1 hand tied behind the back.
Farmer's understanding that you just can't replace Alex Mack with anybody was much needed evolution in our front office. Using a similar philosophical current, it was also refreshing to see a need to prioritize what we put inside our offensive tackles on both sides of Center. All the while we had Steinbach here, we were really good/consistent at running between the tackles and getting interior linemen to the next level of defense. We were also killer good at pulling and trapping. Even the Hank Fraley that Philly had already demoted to 2nd string came here; and was able to pull from his Center position which was as unique as it was impressive back in 2007. Talk about a pleasant surprise. Anyway, I'm very thankful we have a front office mindset that knows the importance of adding a Bitonio.
Best of all, Farmer showed me an actual philosophical plan where his ego didn't over-rule input from a head coach/coaching staff he's counting on for make it happen. I saw a strategy that seemed to have clear-cut objectives to improve running game and pass defense coupled with the balls to stick to it. Anytime we hear "play like a Brown" just look at a team that got to 6-3 and even 7-4 despite how FUBAR our injury volume got coming off only 4 wins in 2013. There were no excuses as the competitive bar significantly improved to several playoff caliber opponents needing to erase late second half leads like Baltimore, Indy, Carolina or break 4th quarter ties with FGs as time expired like Baltimore and Pittsburgh needed to (thanks to narcolepsy on our STs). If we add a play maker, we might even pull out more close games by turning an expected short gain into an unexpected long TD the way Torrey Smith or Indy's WRs were able to exploit tired legs late (after being contained most of the day). Our DBs had anywhere from a 10k to a half marathon on their legs in the 4th quarter vrs Indy.
It's refreshing to have confidence in our front office and staff heading into a draft.
Great stuff!
Just a piggyback and some random thoughts here:
Love our Safeties; BUT adding depth here might not be a bad idea considering Whitner's age and the injury that ended Gipson's 2014 season prematurely.
Something Ive been preaching for a while.....tho few agree.....we need depth at SS.....looks like Desir will cover the FS role...
I'm not sure the supply of answers at QB meets our demand - so why not continue to try to make this an easier team to QB?
Well said again......build the team and avoid compromising it's growth with reaches...
Farmer's understanding that you just can't replace Alex Mack with anybody was much needed evolution in our front office.. Talk about a pleasant surprise. Anyway, I'm very thankful we have a front office mindset that knows the importance of adding a Bitonio.
And one that has the knowledge to pick him
If we add a play maker, we might even pull out more close games by turning an expected short gain into an unexpected long
It will be interesting to see where his focus is this year.......6 days......tick tick tick......
It's refreshing to have confidence in our front office and staff heading into a draft.
YES.....it really is!
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