Margin of Error Supersedes Improved QB Play Here
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Here's a thought. Without trading up or down in 2014 we could have had Evans @ 4 and JM @ 26. At least we would have had a combination that was used to reading one another and a 6'5" receiver with hands and speed. This team could have used him.
Woulda shoulda coulda....But If Im redoing that draft, there are 2 certainties....
1) Im taking K Mack at #4...and...
2) Im not picking Johnny....
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probably because we desperately needed a QB and there were 3 still on the board?,,,,plus, at the time, we had Gordon coming back...?
so draft a wr and leave Manziel, Carr and Bridgewater on the board?......we woulda lynched Farmer for that...
Here's something else I would like to lynch Farmer for. The Titans waive Terrance West, and since he didn't meet the minimum playing time, the Browns don't receive their conditional 7th round pick. So the 3 round pick that Farmer traded up to get, we basically just pissed away. Another reason I want that arrogant prick's job.probably because we desperately needed a QB and there were 3 still on the board?,,,,plus, at the time, we had Gordon coming back...?
so draft a wr and leave Manziel, Carr and Bridgewater on the board?......we woulda lynched Farmer for that...
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Not sure Mike. That said, I can't imagine any of the rock star FAs about to come available in 2016 are wanting any part of Ray Farmer's program here.
Dwayne Bowe hadn't posted good stats in 3 years and look what he paid the guy with all best football parked in the rear view mirror. His plans to upgrade the red zone with taller guys were either veterans long past upside, 1 experiment w/ Pryor changing positions and Vince Mayle with a 2 year body of work.
Look at what we agreed to pay Bowe while we won't even bring Lenz in here to outplay him for the NFL version of minimum wage?
One thought that Farmer would never admit, is that Bowe was really intended to be the bridge(1 yr filler) till Gordon came back...Now, I know we cant "count" on Gordon and I know that Bowe has been a disaster.....
but I do see what he was thinking.....and IF it had worked out well with Bowe, then we'd have that big strong receiver now.....and would be coming out next year with both Bowe and Gordon....along with all the speedy smurfs....and we'd have a versatile, solid group with a superstar quality receiver leading the way....and w/o spending a high pick.....
Anyway....thats what I think they were thinking......
One thought that Farmer would never admit, is that Bowe was really intended to be the bridge(1 yr filler) till Gordon came back...Now, I know we cant "count" on Gordon and I know that Bowe has been a disaster.....
but I do see what he was thinking.....and IF it had worked out well with Bowe, then we'd have that big strong receiver now.....and would be coming out next year with both Bowe and Gordon....along with all the speedy smurfs....and we'd have a versatile, solid group with a superstar quality receiver leading the way....and w/o spending a high pick.....
Anyway....thats what I think they were thinking......
But why not keep a 6'3 Miles Austin who proved to be a serviceable, go-to guy in 2014? Not to mention that he was a good bit cheaper than Bowe.
As for Evans... his 24 receptions would fit right in...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Farmer has got to be under a microscope at this point. So does Pettine. He worries about keeping Johnny in the pocket when he SHOULD be worried about making halftime adjustments & making his defense function at a higher level. McCown has performed far better than most expected this year, but his efforts come up on the short end. Our QBs aren't losing games, the D is. I maintain there MAY be 3 QBs in this league who could win with his defense, that he has failed to change, & his D Coordinator who only knows Pettines' defense. If he doesn't make some sweeping changes, I don't see him (or Farmer) being around next year.
Mike
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I think it's even simpler than that. Leave Defilipo alone with the offense. Pettine needs to fix the defense. That is the major problem..
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One thought that Farmer would never admit, is that Bowe was really intended to be the bridge(1 yr filler) till Gordon came back...Now, I know we cant "count" on Gordon and I know that Bowe has been a disaster.....
but I do see what he was thinking.....and IF it had worked out well with Bowe, then we'd have that big strong receiver now.....and would be coming out next year with both Bowe and Gordon....along with all the speedy smurfs....and we'd have a versatile, solid group with a superstar quality receiver leading the way....and w/o spending a high pick.....
Anyway....thats what I think they were thinking......
But why not keep a 6'3 Miles Austin who proved to be a serviceable, go-to guy in 2014? Not to mention that he was a good bit cheaper than Bowe.
As for Evans... his 24 receptions would fit right in...
But why not keep a 6'3 Miles Austin who proved to be a serviceable, go-to guy in 2014? Not to mention that he was a good bit cheaper than Bowe.
As for Evans... his 24 receptions would fit right in...
Good points. We've had some really crappy WR Corps here since 1999 that haven't helped the QBs out very much. That being the case, how is it we're deeming guys Lance Moore, Willie Snead and most recently, Josh Lenz as not up to snuff. Even more outrageous is why did we draft a guy like Greg Little thinking we'll just teach him how to catch and coach him up. The teams always bettering us in the standings never had to teach professionals like Antonio Brown, AJ Green, and Anquan Boldin how to catch.
Here's another thing about those doing our drafting, draft BETTER tacklers. Nobody had to teach Eric Turner, Lawrence Taylor, JJ Watt, Reggie White, Carl Banks, Mike Singletary, Kikko Alonso, Sean Lee, Ronnie Lott, Jerry Sherk, Clay Matthews, Ray Lewis, Ed Reed or T. Suggs how to tackle.
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It's stats. They looked at Gilbert and saw stats in college,
against guys who weren't often NFL caliber.
I have to believe guys know how to tackle, but they don't -
they don't love the game enough.
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Is this supposed to be pro or anti tall receivers? I'm a little confused.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
One thought that Farmer would never admit, is that Bowe was really intended to be the bridge(1 yr filler) till Gordon came back...Now, I know we cant "count" on Gordon and I know that Bowe has been a disaster.....
but I do see what he was thinking.....and IF it had worked out well with Bowe, then we'd have that big strong receiver now.....and would be coming out next year with both Bowe and Gordon....along with all the speedy smurfs....and we'd have a versatile, solid group with a superstar quality receiver leading the way....and w/o spending a high pick.....
Anyway....thats what I think they were thinking......
But why not keep a 6'3 Miles Austin who proved to be a serviceable, go-to guy in 2014? Not to mention that he was a good bit cheaper than Bowe.
As for Evans... his 24 receptions would fit right in...
But why not keep a 6'3 Miles Austin who proved to be a serviceable, go-to guy in 2014? Not to mention that he was a good bit cheaper than Bowe.
Was asking the same....but never did figure that one out.....
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Was asking the same....but never did figure that one out.....
Didn't Miles drop a lot of balls though. I can recall a few big ones.
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Is this supposed to be pro or anti tall receivers? I'm a little confused.
Is this supposed to be pro or anti tall receivers? I'm a little confused.
Who are you asking that question to? My thesis to promote a balanced attack in the red zone is more size on the perimeter. That said, I was hoping we'd aim higher than garage sale choices no-one else was interested only to overpay dearly for them.
Why did Miami phase Hartline out? upside in rear view mirror unless our first 8 games showed someone else otherwise. When was the last time Dwayne Bowe posted numbers an NFL team should be interested in? Upside parked 2-3 years ago. What round of the did we prioritize WR help in? So we landed a guy with a 2 year football resume with more questions about his hands than those in charge of our draft were willing to ask.
Lenz is 6'1" with an agenda to prove himself so we cut that and kept a lazy 9 million $ entitlement. Good message to the players or bad message? 3 different vets spoke up about this cut - which doesn't appear to be promoting quite the same "play like a Brown" last year did. If anything, it invited players questioning the sincerity of it all from above.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
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Didn't Miles drop a lot of balls though. I can recall a few big ones.
He dropped a few, but no more than any of our other receivers....in fact, he had the highest catch % on the team...
Austin 70%
Benji 39%
Gabe 53%
Hawk 63%
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Receptions divided by targets?
Outsiders has a really neat 2014 break down including uncatchable targets with them even broken down more... overthrows, underthrows, defensed, etc. The Defensed part is interesting.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2015/2014-incomplete-pass-breakdown-receivers
Last bit is a drops chart and Miles was the 2nd highest 2014 Brown at 5.6% behind only Gabe at 6.9%...
But here's the funny thing... new addition Hart (6.3%) and Bowe (7.4%) were both worse than Miles.
Miles and Gabe had two of the lowest defensed rates among WRs with 50 or more targets. There is a lot to chew on in that article.
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Is this supposed to be pro or anti tall receivers? I'm a little confused.
Who are you asking that question to? My thesis to promote a balanced attack in the red zone is more size on the perimeter. That said, I was hoping we'd aim higher than garage sale choices no-one else was interested only to overpay dearly for them.
Why did Miami phase Hartline out? upside in rear view mirror unless our first 8 games showed someone else otherwise. When was the last time Dwayne Bowe posted numbers an NFL team should be interested in? Upside parked 2-3 years ago. What round of the did we prioritize WR help in? So we landed a guy with a 2 year football resume with more questions about his hands than those in charge of our draft were willing to ask.
Lenz is 6'1" with an agenda to prove himself so we cut that and kept a lazy 9 million $ entitlement. Good message to the players or bad message? 3 different vets spoke up about this cut - which doesn't appear to be promoting quite the same "play like a Brown" last year did. If anything, it invited players questioning the sincerity of it all from above.
Who are you asking that question to? My thesis to promote a balanced attack in the red zone is more size on the perimeter. That said, I was hoping we'd aim higher than garage sale choices no-one else was interested only to overpay dearly for them.
Why did Miami phase Hartline out? upside in rear view mirror unless our first 8 games showed someone else otherwise. When was the last time Dwayne Bowe posted numbers an NFL team should be interested in? Upside parked 2-3 years ago. What round of the did we prioritize WR help in? So we landed a guy with a 2 year football resume with more questions about his hands than those in charge of our draft were willing to ask.
Lenz is 6'1" with an agenda to prove himself so we cut that and kept a lazy 9 million $ entitlement. Good message to the players or bad message? 3 different vets spoke up about this cut - which doesn't appear to be promoting quite the same "play like a Brown" last year did. If anything, it invited players questioning the sincerity of it all from above.
You.
Just couldn't really glean how you felt on our receiver size. I agree with your overall points.
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Who are you asking that question to? My thesis to promote a balanced attack in the red zone is more size on the perimeter. That said, I was hoping we'd aim higher than garage sale choices no-one else was interested only to overpay dearly for them.
Why did Miami phase Hartline out? upside in rear view mirror unless our first 8 games showed someone else otherwise. When was the last time Dwayne Bowe posted numbers an NFL team should be interested in? Upside parked 2-3 years ago. What round of the did we prioritize WR help in? So we landed a guy with a 2 year football resume with more questions about his hands than those in charge of our draft were willing to ask.
Lenz is 6'1" with an agenda to prove himself so we cut that and kept a lazy 9 million $ entitlement. Good message to the players or bad message? 3 different vets spoke up about this cut - which doesn't appear to be promoting quite the same "play like a Brown" last year did. If anything, it invited players questioning the sincerity of it all from above.
You.
Just couldn't really glean how you felt on our receiver size. I agree with your overall points.
You.
Just couldn't really glean how you felt on our receiver size. I agree with your overall points.
Speaking of which in case I missed it's posting: http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/11/cleveland_browns_must_change_t.html
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One thought that Farmer would never admit, is that Bowe was really intended to be the bridge(1 yr filler) till Gordon came back...Now, I know we cant "count" on Gordon and I know that Bowe has been a disaster.....
but I do see what he was thinking.....and IF it had worked out well with Bowe, then we'd have that big strong receiver now.....and would be coming out next year with both Bowe and Gordon....along with all the speedy smurfs....and we'd have a versatile, solid group with a superstar quality receiver leading the way....and w/o spending a high pick.....
Anyway....thats what I think they were thinking......
But why not keep a 6'3 Miles Austin who proved to be a serviceable, go-to guy in 2014? Not to mention that he was a good bit cheaper than Bowe.
As for Evans... his 24 receptions would fit right in...
But why not keep a 6'3 Miles Austin who proved to be a serviceable, go-to guy in 2014? Not to mention that he was a good bit cheaper than Bowe.
As for Evans... his 24 receptions would fit right in...
Keeping Austin over Bowe should have been a no-brainer in hindsight.
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Actually it invited players to question the competence of those making these kinds of decision. And it had more to do with foresight than hindsight. It has become quite obvious that whomever Farmer wants to blame, whether it be he or his "committee", has no inkling of the impact of premier WR's, not just in the passing game, but in the running game as well. If you can't get the front 7 concerned about stopping the passing game it gives them free reign to crunch your running game into 2 yards and a cloud of losing. Add to that a D that can't stop anything on the edge and often up the middle, then you have the perfect recipe for continued bottom dweller. And when are they going to put Shelton on a good strength & conditioning program. He either needs to drop 30 lbs of slowing flab or turn it into something a lot more effective.
Sorry-I'm just disgusted with this "pro" staff at all levels.
!! Thanks Flugs. put the pot of Java down 
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