Camp Goff

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@westside-steve said:

So how irate are you guys going to be when Analytics boy decides to pick somebody in the third or fourth round?

WSS

As the second QB taken, after we take one at #2? Not irate whatsoever.

Analytics points to taking a QB earlier rather than later.

More teams have experienced more SUSTAINED success with first round QB's than QB's taken in any of the other six rounds.

The common argument is "oh yeah, look at Tampa, or Baltimore, or New England". New England is really the lone exception, as both Tampa and Baltimore crashed essentially immediately after their Super Bowl runs.

You don't win for long in the NFL without a QB, period. The Browns have taken the top QB exactly once since the return, and they've been the worst team in the NFL over the same span. "Analytics" (read: common sense) points to us taking a QB at #2.

Everyone else using the term "analytics" to say we're not going to spend picks on valuable, highly ranked players in the draft fundamentally doesn't understand what that word means. We're not "moneyballing" the league, we're just not being fucking stupid and trying to bargain basement shop for a QB.

Westside Steve

Well maybe you guys have a better handle on what the fuck analytics might possibly mean.

But in case I wasn't clear I'm talking about foregoing a quarterback until the third or fourth round where coach Jackson sees one he could coach up to be the next Andy Dalton

WSS

hoorta

@bbedward said:
I had a couple (real) Cubans in Mexico (I know they were real based on my research, almost everybody sells fakes). I honestly can't tell the difference between a Cuban and any other cigar - I smoked one on the beach though which was nice.

Cuban cigars are over rated. All the quality producers hit the road after Castro took over. (If they could)- Dominican Republic. Cuban cigars tend to have a very robust flavor profile- and that's not my cup or tea (or smoke). Give me a nice mild Macanudo. Cigars consist of filler, binder and wrapper. Bet you didn't know the very best cigar wrappers are grown right here in the USA- Connecticut shade tobacco.

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@westside-steve said:

Well maybe you guys have a better handle on what the fuck analytics might possibly mean.

But in case I wasn't clear I'm talking about foregoing a quarterback until the third or fourth round where coach Jackson sees one he could coach up to be the next Andy Dalton

WSS

Andy Dalton was pick #35, so it would make more sense we took a guy around #32 to do that.

That means Cook or Hackenberg. I was high on Cook to start the season but drastically cooled when he didn't show any sort of progression. He's as good today as he was two years ago, in my eyes.

Tour2ma

@westside-steve said:
So how irate are you guys going to be when Analytics boy decides to pick somebody in the third or fourth round?

Irate? Mildly at best as I'll be more stunned, then gradually move to stupefied...

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:
Everyone else using the term "analytics" to say we're not going to spend picks on valuable, highly ranked players in the draft fundamentally doesn't understand what that word means. We're not "moneyballing" the league, we're just not being fucking stupid and trying to bargain basement shop for a QB.

Even Moneyball teams spend on pitchers... well, other than the Indians they do...

joedawg69

I will be OK with it so long as Pittsburgh does not end up with Wentz or Goff like the year we picked Wimbley and they ended up with Rothlesburger. If I have to go through another decade of Pittsburgh domination while we have another project bust taken high I am going to go crazy.

Flugel

@mike-h said:

Using stats isn't the best for this type of discussion, but UGH, OK we can do that. Justin is a very good friend of mine and put a ton of work into this, please give it a read (don't just read the charts).

http://draftbreakdown.com/2016-nfl-draft-breaking-down-situational-quarterback-performance/

Wentz has advantages in a few of the categories, not just above Goff, but above the rest of this QB class.

Thanks for sharing that - great read Mike!

Flugel

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Andy Dalton was pick #35, so it would make more sense we took a guy around #32 to do that.

That means Cook or Hackenberg. I was high on Cook to start the season but drastically cooled when he didn't show any sort of progression. He's as good today as he was two years ago, in my eyes.

Devil's advocate. It could also mean they're willing to project better football ahead from different QBs slotted later. While I agree with your point about Cook - it's important to understand he wasn't anywhere near 100% when MSU squeaked by Iowa and I'm guessing the same held true the next time he got center stage vrs Bama. I will say I don't remember seeing Michigan State having a better 3 year run than I've seen the last 3 years with Cook starting there. That could all very well be just a coincidence. Marino didn't have a very good last season at Pitt so he dropped all the way down to Don Shula's draft slot somewhere around #26 overall with quite a few QBs drafted ahead the HOF QB. Someone like Farmer wouldn't be smart enough to research more than 1 extract or understand what's caused a drop-off.

Andy Dalton reminds us that a guy learning from Hue can get his arm stronger as evidenced in his 2015 season. Even before that, it wasn't like he was a bad regular season QB while Cincy has frequented playoffs since he has arrived. Yes, I know they haven't won a post season game yet but you gotta make the playoffs to have a shot at winning a playoff game. He's leading the horse to water but now the horse needs to be thirsty when it gets there. It almost was with a backup QB in 2015 but 1 late fumble and lost composure shortly thereafter reminded us nobody's Burfict.

The Gipper

@bbedward said:
Looking at those alone it'd mean cardale was a top 3 QB in the draft - he's not.

Or, maybe that is just what he will turn out to be. You never know.

The Gipper

@tour2ma said:

Gruden (or Jaws?) had an interesting take on Cardale today...

"Cardale Jones is not a pro prospect. He is a pro project."

OK, how do you interpret that?

The Gipper

@westside-steve said:

So how irate are you guys going to be when Analytics boy decides to pick somebody in the third or fourth round?

WSS

And no QB in the first?

The Gipper

@joedawg69 said:
I will be OK with it so long as Pittsburgh does not end up with Wentz or Goff like the year we picked Wimbley and they ended up with Rothlesburger. If I have to go through another decade of Pittsburgh domination while we have another project bust taken high I am going to go crazy.

Ah, No. The year the Steelers took BR was the year we took K2 in the draft. Wimbley was later.

TexasAg1969

If we don't take a QB @ #2, Cook might be worth a look in a later round. He wins.

gftChris

@texasag1969 said:
If we don't take a QB @ #2, Cook might be worth a look in a later round. He wins.

So did Colt McCoy. College stats mean shit all.

LogicIsForSquares

@texasag1969 said:
If we don't take a QB @ #2, Cook might be worth a look in a later round. He wins.

No thanks on Cook. Would rather take one of the project guys that at least seem like they want to be leaders (Jones/Prescott/Hogan).

Mike H

Cook is not appealing to me, at all, in any round. I wonder if Dak Prescott will fall because of DUI. All other accounts of his character have been very good.

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@mike-h said:
Cook is not appealing to me, at all, in any round. I wonder if Dak Prescott will fall because of DUI. All other accounts of his character have been very good.

I've been hard in the Wentz camp (second gayest thing I've said here), but I wouldn't mind signing RG3 and drafting Dak, say, in the fourth or so.

RG3 + Myles Jack (#2) + BPA EDGE/WR + Tyler Matakevich (3rd) + Joe Haeg (4th) + Dak Prescott (4th comp.) wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

LogicIsForSquares

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

I've been hard in the Wentz camp (second gayest thing I've said here), but I wouldn't mind signing RG3 and drafting Dak, say, in the fourth or so.

RG3 + Myles Jack (#2) + BPA EDGE/WR + Tyler Matakevich (3rd) + Joe Haeg (4th) + Dak Prescott (4th comp.) wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

I would be pretty happy with that kind of draft.

Mike H

I dont like Matakevich as much as I did initially. I don't know what I think about Myles Jack still, have been so focused on QBs.

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@mike-h said:
I dont like Matakevich as much as I did initially. I don't know what I think about Myles Jack still, have been so focused on QBs.

I think it would be invaluable to have a guy like Matakevich as a rotational/special teams player with upside. He's just one of those guys that I think are great foundational pieces - we would never be at a severe disadvantage with him rotating in just because of the fact that he's a very strong football mind.

Granted, the third isn't really a place where you take that sort of player, but I just like most things about him and I, personally, would be willing to take him at that slot.

Conversely, I like Jack's overall talent pool and how diverse his skillset is. I think he's a good athletic talent to take at the top of the draft.