Tashaun Gipson Hopes to "Hang 40" on Browns

[Canton Dawg]

@stillmotion said:

spending more money usually results in getting better players. or you can keep ricardo louis and bryce treggs and go 1-24.

Yep, notice how we went from a 3-5 wins a season to the debacle we have now?

I guess you get what you pay for...freakin sad.

[BaconHound]

@alkid3 said:

When TJ left then Gipson. It was over. Whitner wasn't much of a replacement. 

Yeah TJ has started to tail off and he was always more of a thumper and not sure how he would've fit in.  Whitner wasn't very good in a Browns jersey though.

[syd]

Shmuck him if it wasn't for heckert he would be washing dishes in the projects

[Ghoolie]

@stillmotion said:

So y'all would have Jimmy stay incredibly under the cap and make more money instead of keeping a decent FS? Jesus. Dude was young and good, Sashi Brown's job is to make Jimmy a team to win for as cheap as possible, which is why we didn't resign him. It doesn't differ much from letting T.J. Ward go without even offering anything. We continue to develop players and then let them play somewhere else. Like Mudfly said awhile back, We cut a bunch of vets and people who were skilled and replaced them with basically infants who are inept. Sure, some of them will be decent, but will we ever get a playoff team without spending the Cap? And please don't say we're going to spend a lot of Cap this offseason and we've been waiting for the third offseason, because until we do it I don't believe it. In fact, I bet we'd let Josh Gordon walk even if he has a great end of the season just to save Jimmy money.

A large deal of the process has to do with saving JIMMY MONEY, if you want to argue against that, show me the proof.

This business of provide a winner as cheaply as possible is truly bullschidt. I think FIRST you provide a winner................THEN work on your economy. Where was it stated that Sashi's job is to provide a winner as cheaply as possible? That's just a screwed up concept. If that premise is true, then Sashi can never be called into question or fired because as long as he is way under the cap he can say '"being under the cap is part of my job responsibility".

I have to be honest with you, the entire culture of this team is way off the scale fahking weird. We talk about schidt that not one of the other 31 teams talk about. They talk about TDs, wins, playoffs, and we talk about theoretical, euphemistic bullschidt that you have to believe on face value because there are no statistics of numbers to support it. " Oh, the team isn't winning, but that isn't what we are doing here, you have to see deeper to understand that while we look like schidt.......there is a lot going on.

Sorry man, but it's horse schidt. 

[Orion]

@the-gipper said:

But...why?   Was it just over a bit of money?

How much is Jax paying him?

He fit the profile of the kind of guy they would want.   He was still very young.

Or was it just that he "wasn't our guy"......and/or over a piddling amount of money?

It's hard to pin down the exact reason from where we're sitting.

I think it was many factors at that point in time.  1)  Gipson was gimpy at the time.  2)  He wanted money because he was a pro bowler.  3)  The new regime (FO & coaches) had no history with him.  4)  The FO was kind of Socky.  Know it alls that figured, "We sucked with you.  How much worse could we possibly be without you?"  -  That is a sentiment that I heard on another board....and I immediately fired back that, "It could DEFINITELY be worse!"    

[Canton Dawg]

While I agree with Gipson on his take of the Browns FO, I hope the Browns lay a fukkin beat down on the Jags.

[stillmotion]

@ghoolie said:

Where was it stated that Sashi's job is to provide a winner as cheaply as possible?

It wasn't stated, it's just my observations and opinion. Moneyball was arguably about finding undervalued talent. I can't fathom gutting everyone like we did and sucking for draft picks, it's just too weird now. People think it's all Sashi's process, and Depo's process, but what they're really not thinking of is that it's been Jimmy's process all along, who you could argue is a bufoon, and doesn't even have a clue how to put a winner on the field. If Jimmy cared about his fans, he'd try harder to win. You're going to tell me that Jimmy's F.O. tell him to spend so little money on the cap every year? I think that comes from Jimmy himself. You might think my hypothesis is cowpoop, but just wait and see if we resign gordon or let him walk. that will tell us if i'm full of s#$% or if i'm onto Haslam's bullshittery an ineptitude.

And don't forget, Pettine had a TON of lack of talent too and had to give all of those pressers as the Browns lost his second year. Jimmy is a Jerry Jones wannabe without a brain.

[Dawgs89]

The Jaguars basically have a bye this week. Most teams likely can't help but look ahead before facing this dumpster fire.

[Tour2ma]

@canton-dawg said:

The claim was Gipson is no better than what is currently on the Browns roster which is silly. 

BTW, Kindred is a SS while Gip is a FS. So it's not really an apples to apples comparison.

Semi-silly perhaps... but just proves the naysyaers don't have a monopoly on hyperbole...

Peppers was also in my analysis, but then he's not really a FS either... is he?

And then there's the whole issue of Gip being worth his contract... an issue you deftly avoided.

[Tour2ma]

@stillmotion said:

So y'all would have Jimmy stay incredibly under the cap and make more money instead of keeping a decent FS? Jesus. Dude was young and good, Sashi Brown's job is to make Jimmy a team to win for as cheap as possible, which is why we didn't resign him. It doesn't differ much from letting T.J. Ward go without even offering anything. We continue to develop players and then let them play somewhere else. Like Mudfly said awhile back, We cut a bunch of vets and people who were skilled and replaced them with basically infants who are inept. Sure, some of them will be decent, but will we ever get a playoff team without spending the Cap? And please don't say we're going to spend a lot of Cap this offseason and we've been waiting for the third offseason, because until we do it I don't believe it. In fact, I bet we'd let Josh Gordon walk even if he has a great end of the season just to save Jimmy money.

A large deal of the process has to do with saving JIMMY MONEY, if you want to argue against that, show me the proof.

Here's a thought... actually make your case then I'll tear it apart. I'll even give you a peek at my counter...

• Collins...
• Zeitler...
• Osweiler...

As for Tashaun "Dude was young and good" Gipson... yes, he was. He was also badly injured and has never been the same, but he wanted to be paid for what he was pre-injury. ust another in a long line of players whose value we nailed.

If we did what you (and Mud) wanted, we'd be in cap hell before we ever got playoff competitive... and all in the name of a few, meaningless wins.

@stillmotion said:

spending more money usually results in getting better players. or you can keep ricardo louis and bryce treggs and go 1-24.

Two words... Albert Haynesworth...

Need more? Dwayne Bowe...

**Drops Mic**

[stillmotion]

2017

Cleveland Browns

Approximate space: $105 million

A couple of years of caution and few homegrown talents to reward allowed the Browns to carry over more than $50 million from last year's cap. That accounts for nearly half of this season's league-leading total. Receiver Terrelle Pryor Sr. is in position to consume some of that space, but the Browns already have given linebacker Jamie Collins a four-year extension (2017 cap hit: $12.1 million) and almost certainly will roll over a significant portion of their current space to 2018.

Since the total salary cap from 2013-2016 is $554.55 million, then every NFL team, including the Browns, must have a cash spend of at least 89% of that by the end of the 2016 league year, which is $493.55 million.

More like he had to get someone like Collins and Zeitler.

@tour2ma said:

Need more? Dwayne Bowe...

Just more proof that we need better talent evaluators in there so it doesn't happen again. (cough, BRITT, cough)

[Tour2ma]

But you said higher pay means better players?

Now I'm confused...

[Tour2ma]

@stillmotion said:

2017

Cleveland Browns

Approximate space: $105 million

A couple of years of caution and few homegrown talents to reward allowed the Browns to carry over more than $50 million from last year's cap. That accounts for nearly half of this season's league-leading total. Receiver Terrelle Pryor Sr. is in position to consume some of that space, but the Browns already have given linebacker Jamie Collins a four-year extension (2017 cap hit: $12.1 million) and almost certainly will roll over a significant portion of their current space to 2018.

Since the total salary cap from 2013-2016 is $554.55 million, then every NFL team, including the Browns, must have a cash spend of at least 89% of that by the end of the 2016 league year, which is $493.55 million.

More like he had to get someone like Collins and Zeitler.

Actually we haven't been in "have to spend mode" for a couple seasons now.

And not sure where you got your "approximate" data, but it's clearly months old as it mentions Pryor's bite at the apple. It's also clearly wrong.

Total Cap Liabilities: $155,357,654

• Top 51: $84,174,780
• Team Cap Space: $61,841,025

• Offense: $62,618,337
• Defense: $48,438,905
• Special: $5,102,292

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/cleveland-browns

[The Gipper]

My question about Tashaun's  statement:    He plays defense, does he not?    Then why would he say that he wants to hang "40" on the Browns...assuming he means 40 points.

Shouldn't a defensive player's thought process be more like "We want to hang a Goose Egg" on them?    I mean....if the Jags "hang 40" on the Browns...that would be the accomplishment of the offense, not the defense, no?  Beyond that....what if the Jags DO "hang 40" on the Browns......but the Browns "hang 42" on that defense?   That would be a real slap in the face, no?   (not that I would ever expect this offense to score 42 on anyone, particularly the Jags).

[Canton Dawg]

@tour2ma said:

Semi-silly perhaps... but just proves the naysyaers don't have a monopoly on hyperbole...

Peppers was also in my analysis, but then he's not really a FS either... is he?

And then there's the whole issue of Gip being worth his contract... an issue you deftly avoided.

Peppers is a non-factor due to where he plays, certainly no fault of his.

I would say overpaying a free agent is the norm in the NFL.

Is Gip worth $35 million? How about Kenny Britt...is he worth $32 million?

[Tour2ma]

@canton-dawg said:

Is Gip worth $35 million? How about Kenny Britt...is he worth $32 million?

Based upon Britt's 2017 performance? Well, that's a rhetorical question isn't it? Based upon his 2016 performance? Absolutely...

Can you say the same about Gip?

@tour2ma said:

	Games	Def Interceptions	Fumbles	Sacks & Tackles
Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	Int	Yds	TD	Lng	PD	FF	Fmb	FR	Yds	TD	Sk	Tkl	Ast	Sfty	AV
Career				75	67	18	430	2	67	30	1	1	1	0	0		223	92		27
4 yrs	CLE			50	42	14	324	2	62	23	1	1	0	0	0		156	79		20
2 yrs	JAX			25	25	4	106	0	67	7	0	0	1	0	0		67	13		7
2012	22	CLE	fs	39	10	3	1	23	0	23	1							23	6		2
2013	23	CLE	FS	39	16	15	5	143	1	44	12							63	31		6
2014*	24	CLE	FS	39	11	11	6	158	1	62	8	1	0	0	0	0		28	24		8
2015	25	CLE	FS/rcb	39	13	13	2	0	0	0	2	0	1	0	0	0		42	18		4
2016	26	JAX	FS	39	16	16	1	30	0	30	2							34	7		7
2017	27	JAX	FS	39	9	9	3	76	0	67	5	0	0	1	0	0		33	6

[stillmotion]

@tour2ma said:

But you said higher pay means better players?

Now I'm confused...

Kenny Britt was never a WR1. Showed flashes of talent but was lazy. Dwayne Bowe was streaky at best and never a top 5 WR in the league. Collins was one of the only top tier signings we had recently. Usually, more pay = the players are better, doesn't mean people don't make mistakes, but the biggest mistake is leaving gaps all around your team and expecting twenty some year olds to play neck and neck with veterans.

[Tour2ma]

Well... Britt wasn't signed to be a WR1 was he? Wasn't paid WR1 money, was he?

Yes, he under performed at points in his career including this season to date... until DET, where he lit it up early.... That's the guy we thought we'd signed to be our #2 behind Coleman.

Misses aren't uncommon... even with FAs who have a longer track record. However, I can't recall a member here who did not see the disaster coming that was Dwayne Bowe.

And least we forget... Collins was not an FA signing. He was a "roll-the-dice-and-trade-for-a-player-in-a-contract-year" who saw what we were doing in Believeland and bought into it enough to extend and stay.

Not sure anyone gives our "dismal worthless" FO enough credit for that one.

Good discussion...

[stillmotion]

@tour2ma said:

Well... Britt wasn't signed to be a WR1 was he? Wasn't paid WR1 money, was he?

Yes, he under performed at points in his career including this season to date... until DET, where he lit it up early.... That's the guy we thought we'd signed to be our #2 behind Coleman.

Misses aren't uncommon... even with FAs who have a longer track record. However, I can't recall a member here who did not see the disaster coming that was Dwayne Bowe.

And least we forget... Collins was not an FA signing. He was a "roll-the-dice-and-trade-for-a-player-in-a-contract-year" who saw what we were doing in Believeland and bought into it enough to extend and stay.

Not sure anyone gives our "dismal worthless" FO enough credit for that one.

Good discussion...

I'm not talking about the F.O. at all. I'm talking if Jimmy is willing to part ways with his money to sign more FA's or to resign players. So far in his tenor as owner, he hasn't proved that he will.

[Tour2ma]

Jimmah and the FO are inseparable when it comes to spending... so yes, you are talking about the FO... which in addition to the Collins dice-roll has spent on:

• the Bito extension,
• Zeitler,
• Joe's raise... while he was already under contract...
• Tretter... bit of a pattern in these first four...
• McCourty and Taylor... there.. got off the OL.

Pretty sure I named every player who is not playing under rookie contract... which BTW are cheap contracts. How many picks have we made in the past 3 and 4 years? 30 and 40? Plus UDFAs?

And that's not to mention the $35mm (or was it 50?) or so he poured into stadium rennovations. Do you really think he lays out that kind of cash only to skimp on the product so the place is only half full by the end of Sept?

How 'bout the $16mm paid for a 2nd round pick?

The guaranteed money to get Bowe gone? The past couple staffs... The past couple GMs...

If you can ignore all that, then you are one tuff nut. But a nut with one more year, about 16 months actually, to decry Jimmah's financial commitment.