Like clockwork the horn tooting begins. Sure thing, Yinzer. 

@rich4eagle said: You do not get it. Paul Brown introduced the West Coast Offense into the AAFC in 1946 they won the championship all four years. He taught it to bill walsh and now they all know it. The Browns won three NFL championships in there first six years with "Automatic Otto Graham throwing the ball and Marion Motley running over people and catching passes.  Sometime check on history of the NFL and AAFC before just spouting off bs Rich is perfectly correct. I mean....people don't seem to realize that the NFL record for most passing yards in a game is 554........in 1951.....by Norm Van Brocklin of the Rams.  Still the record to this day.  And while sure, there is a lot more passing these days.....that is only because of the rules that have been put in place.  You can't touch the receivers, you can't touch the QBs.  But there was plenty of passing in those days.   By guys that are just as good at throwing the ball as we have now.

My old buddy Rich!

... and a good Offense.... and a good Defense. Lines are a part of both... no doubt about it... but they are not key to the exclusion of the other pieces. Our dearly departed Ghoulster took it to an extreme, but OLs can and have been built mining the depths of draft. On a shear number of positions basis, five, they are the largest group in any draft. Most fall away as undersized, athletically limited, but there's always a handful of diamonds in the rough even extending into the UDFA pool. Small school players... late bloomers... position moves... etc... Sometimes you have spend high for them, especially for foundational LTs and Edge kings, but often they can be high value picks. Day 2 is target rich with them.

@nickers said:Sure Buckeye players are nice.. But picking for sentimental value is not gonna help your team.. Most of us here understand that. It ultimately comes down to the system a team is running and trust.. That is trusting that player to flourish in said system.. However. Im not really big on the system as I am on "talent".. Everything starts with raw talent. Then, learning how to play the game. yep and ohio state had some of the best talent in the draft this year so....... it's like picking a 2nd stringer from a deep national championship team (whoever/whenever) or some 'sure-fire' guy from a division II school. my bet goes on the 2nd stringer.

see tickets thread

I have a partially chewed piece of gum I'm willing to offer for someone's PSL

He knows he'll get his money. I think a very important thing to Collins was to be able to CHOOSE where he would play. Mike

@rich4eagle said: Just wondering if anyone including management understands that in the Glory Days Offense won the Championships as it even does moreso now. That skill players on offense are the fundamental key to Championships. In order of Importance QB, RB, WR! That impact players on defense ie disruptive players go a long way. And FOREMOST OL guys are dime a dozen, easily replaced often drafted way too high. Still waiting on Cleveland Football to get it ever since the DAWG POUND mania caused the demise of a great franchise by focusing on D and losing! I went on vacation about the time you posted this, but I will assume that others have pointed out the fact that the Browns HAVE focused on offensive skill players, at least in the draft....and have unfortuneatley had miserable success with it. From Quinn to Weeden to Richardson to Gordon to Robiskie/MoMass etc. etc. we have used first and second round picks on offensive skill players, nearly all of whom have failed. All of these prime assets were used on bums at the skill position. The Browns get it right, they just can't do it right.

Tied for most lineman drafted in first 3 rounds of draft. Yea wasted pick.

Zombo said: I was ALL IN on both Peterson and Rivers ... In fact i was the sole proprietor of Camp Peterson. Rich is a douchebag Steeler fan who feels the need to tell everyone how much smarter he is than them, even when, in most cases, he fails miserably. Ten years ago he bet me, $1 per yard, that Maurice Clarett would outgain William Green in the NFL. The final tally was Green 2,109 and Clerett 0 ... but I have never seen the $2,109.00. Zombo Don't forget the interest.

Gents, I don't know if I will be able to participate in Saturday's events, but I hope to see you Sunday Morning.

@the-gipper said: What I should probably do is list the results of the best scoring defenses of all time. I will see if I can find that....but it is probable that many of them will be early years teams. It is easier to provide a link to this than to try to recreate the list here, but these are the greatest scoring defenses....only since 1966. Again, these only go up through 2008. Also note that this site says that from 1966 to 1977 the NFL operated in a "Dead Ball era" where the rules favored the defense compared to today. In fact of the top 14 defenses...only 1 has come after 1978..the 2000 Ravens...and the 1985 Bears...considered perhaps the greatest defense of all time is only #15 of the lowest scoring defenses from 1966-2008. Maybe it adds fuel to Rich's fire: the rules have been changed to favor offense....thus team's that want to win should load up on offensive talent. http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/the-greatest-defenses-the-super-bowl-era/5039/

@thenew23 said: Hmmm... Dallas??? Chicago??? Pittsburgh??? Carolina??? Sacrificed trench players over the year to focus on playmakers. Now, their only talent is the guys who touch the ball, and where are they?? On the other side of the coin, SanFran? Cincy? Minnesota? Built strong o-lines and front 7s on D. Where are they?? You can't just have weapons, you have to have players in the trenches... duh It's not enough to just draft "weapons" you have to draft "weapons" that can actually play NFL football at a high level for years. Let's see- for the Browns- Couch, Smokin' Willie Green, "It's a sin if they draft" Quinn- yeah Ritchie poo I nailed that one. , Win-slow, Hands of Stone Edwards, Slow-biski, Glassaquoi. That's off the top of my head. It's not like the Browns haven't TRIED to draft weapons- they drafted the wrong ones. Matt Millen did about nothing but draft major bust "weapons" starting with Joey Harrington, and a raft of suck wrs. OTOH, using the Lions as an example, even if you have major "weapons"- like a qb that threw for damn near 5,000 yards, and arguably the best wr in football- Megatron, it doesn't mean squat if the rest of your team sucks. Those "weapons" netted the Lions one less win than the Browns.

Slimdawg, the wheels are in motion. We did the right things in the last draft getting Richardson and Weeden. Richie ***************************************************** and..... come on, say it.... SWARTZ at RIGHT TACKLE...... which you never cared about the oline....but look at the results of the RT being a legit addition .... Weeden has eh...often great pass protection.... Swartz was the missing part.... Swartz. Say it, Rich !

Zombo said: No, unfortunately they are real.. Rich is the effeminate one. Ghoolie is the "bear". Zombo Ghoolie is the bear? All this time I was worried someone here might actually be bigger than me, so I've been watching what I say. Now I can speak freely! (In case you missed it, Rich...I wasn't being serious.)

@king-ghoolie-lives said: As long as Browns fans believe that there are silver linings in losses, the losses will continue. Regurgitate your bullshit about the Browns amassing talent all you want but the Browns are not improving, nobody is giving them any respect and they have regressed from teh 2010 season. At that, no debate can be entered into and against. I'll disagree- the Browns actually have more talent on the field than in 2010, the difference is a buffoon head coach that doesn't know how to utilize it. Shurmur makes Eric Mangini look like a forking genius, Crennell too for that matter. Mangini figured out a way for his undermanned team to beat the Saints and Patriots, Crennell took a pile of s##t KC team and took down the undefeated Packers. Shurmur figured out a way to get beat by the suckfull Rams, and mediocre Cardinals. If you can't beat inferior talent, how in the hell are you going to beat superior talent? Pray for Divine intervention?

That game happens 2 minutes from my house. That stadium is where my high school played football games. I may be from Virginia, but I grew up a Mount Union fan because they were always here haha. Plus my little league team was the Raiders so I definitely loved the Purple Raiders haha. If it weren't pouring rain for most of the night, I'd be up there right now. But screw sitting in the rain haha.

@htownbrown said: You could give McCoy 4 Jerry Rices and he still couldn't do what Fat Ben does. I'm all for drafting a QB every year if that's what it takes. Your not building anything without a good one. Except of course history tells us that is not true. If you have the defense, the running game, the OL etc. you can have an average QB. I mean, the likes of Mark Rypien, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson were not killer QBs. Sure, you are better off having a Peyton Manning or a Tom Brady or a Drew Brees, but it can be done without a QB of that quality. I say build up the rest of the team, then plug in the QB as the last piece of the puzzle....the same way Pittsburgh did it.

@banana-stand said: didn't both of julio jones's touchdowns this year come against the winless colts? Does it matter? Maybe they were against the Rams. A TD is a TD. Little probably would have had a couple of more if he didn't drop so many.