Browns vs. Steelers offensive line
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The steelers line played pretty well last season and it was their first under munchak.
I agree that munchak was a very sweet coup for the Steelers to obtain. I honestly think he will have a short lived life there as other teams will be after him for a HC position. (In fact....before they got Pettine I think Munchak was on their list of potentials)
There isnt a whole lot of separation between good lines and very good lines.
OK, but there is between bad lines and good lines.
As long as the qb is staying clean and the offense is clicking its really all that matters.
It helps a lot if that O line is blocking for top quality Skill players....which we know the Steelers have at QB RB and #1 WR.
I will be curious to see where things stand after the 2015 season. Beachum is a 7th rounder playing like a first. Foster was undrafted and pouncey maybe played his best season last year with decastro healthy at his right. I'm very pleased with our line at this point. Both lines are good.
I actually think munchak is perfectly content but I wouldn't be surprised if someone comes knocking. I also wouldn't be surprised if he refused as I don't believe he enjoyed being a head coach as much...look at lebeau for example. Although he's probably more of an anamoly due to his age. Yes I agree on the jump between bad and very good. The steelers have a pretty damn good line, if the browns are better its not a noticible difference. Yes skill positions help.The steelers line played pretty well last season and it was their first under munchak.
I agree that munchak was a very sweet coup for the Steelers to obtain. I honestly think he will have a short lived life there as other teams will be after him for a HC position. (In fact....before they got Pettine I think Munchak was on their list of potentials)
There isnt a whole lot of separation between good lines and very good lines.
OK, but there is between bad lines and good lines.
As long as the qb is staying clean and the offense is clicking its really all that matters.
It helps a lot if that O line is blocking for top quality Skill players....which we know the Steelers have at QB RB and #1 WR.
I will be curious to see where things stand after the 2015 season. Beachum is a 7th rounder playing like a first. Foster was undrafted and pouncey maybe played his best season last year with decastro healthy at his right. I'm very pleased with our line at this point. Both lines are good.
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Id say it's not even close.....we got em at 4 outta 5 positions(slam dunk) and there's even an argument that Schwartz is better than Gilbert.....but Id call that one a wash.....and you know I love scores and rankings, so just for the sake of it, here are their NFL ranks for 2014...)
Joe Thomas(#3) beats Beachum(#5),,,,
Bitonio(#2) crushes Foster(#18)......
Mack(prjcts to #2) beats Pouncy(#6)
Greco(#6) beats DeCastro(#11)...
Schwartz(#12) falls to Gilbert(#10) (but its close)
Hard to compare given the differing schemes employed... "emphasized" may be the better word choice since there are few "pure" schemes in this copy-cat league.
Greco(#6) beats DeCastro(#11)...
I am so proud of the job John did last year...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Hard to compare given the differing schemes employed... "emphasized" may be the better word choice since there are few "pure" schemes in this copy-cat league.
I am so proud of the job John did last year...
Sounds like a cop out Tour. "Differing schemes"? I mean, either an OL does his job or he doesn't. I know you have gone in the past at great lengths to analyze the performances of Browns front lines.
Are you saying you can't do the same for the Steelers because their blocking scheme varies from that used by the Browns?
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Hard to compare given the differing schemes employed... "emphasized" may be the better word choice since there are few "pure" schemes in this copy-cat league.
I am so proud of the job John did last year...
Sounds like a cop out Tour. "Differing schemes"? I mean, either an OL does his job or he doesn't. I know you have gone in the past at great lengths to analyze the performances of Browns front lines.
Are you saying you can't do the same for the Steelers because their blocking scheme varies from that used by the Browns?
Sounds like a cop out Tour. "Differing schemes"? I mean, either an OL does his job or he doesn't. I know you have gone in the past at great lengths to analyze the performances of Browns front lines.
Are you saying you can't do the same for the Steelers because their blocking scheme varies from that used by the Browns?
He said the schemes run are different and they are so its hard to compare. Pretty clear.
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
Scheme should'nt matter all that much.. you can play the position.. or you simply cant.
They are asked to excel at different things in different schemes. Either way pff in October of last year ranked the Browns 1st and the Steelers 4th. Are you really going to challenge the guy that dissects offensive line play on your message board?
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
Scheme should'nt matter all that much.. you can play the position.. or you simply cant.
They are asked to excel at different things in different schemes. Either way pff in October of last year ranked the Browns 1st and the Steelers 4th. Are you really going to challenge the guy that dissects offensive line play on your message board?
They are asked to excel at different things in different schemes. Either way pff in October of last year ranked the Browns 1st and the Steelers 4th. Are you really going to challenge the guy that dissects offensive line play on your message board?
I'm not challenging anyone to anything.. I just made a simple statement.. that in most cases.. It's true.. Don't over analyze it for more than what it is.
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Hard to compare given the differing schemes employed... "emphasized" may be the better word choice since there are few "pure" schemes in this copy-cat league.
I am so proud of the job John did last year...
Sounds like a cop out Tour. "Differing schemes"? I mean, either an OL does his job or he doesn't. I know you have gone in the past at great lengths to analyze the performances of Browns front lines.
Are you saying you can't do the same for the Steelers because their blocking scheme varies from that used by the Browns?
Are you saying you can't do the same for the Steelers because their blocking scheme varies from that used by the Browns?
Can't? No... I can, but not going to invest 4 hours per game as I do for the Browns. So not surprisingly I haven't evaluated the Steelers at all.
My impression was that the Steeler O-line surprised to the upside in 2014. There were a lot more questions about them as a unit going into the season than there were coming out. Could well be the Munchak factor.
None of which changes that our ZBS leaning scheme has different requirements than their Power leaning scheme. Yes, there is overlap in the skillsets, but they are not the same. The ZBS is more speed/ agility dependent. Case in point was Greco dropping over 20 lb from his 2013 game weight to get quicker.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Sounds like a cop out Tour. "Differing schemes"? I mean, either an OL does his job or he doesn't. I know you have gone in the past at great lengths to analyze the performances of Browns front lines.
Are you saying you can't do the same for the Steelers because their blocking scheme varies from that used by the Browns?
He said the schemes run are different and they are so its hard to compare. Pretty clear.
He said the schemes run are different and they are so its hard to compare. Pretty clear.
I didn't misunderstand him. I just don't buy that the performance of offensive linemen can't be compared just because they run different schemes.
Every QB out there probably runs some sort of "different scheme", yet we don't hesitate to compare Quarterbacks.....or WRs or RBs or any other position.
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Are you saying you can't do the same for the Steelers because their blocking scheme varies from that used by the Browns?
Can't? No... I can, but not going to invest 4 hours per game as I do for the Browns. So not surprisingly I haven't evaluated the Steelers at all.
My impression was that the Steeler O-line surprised to the upside in 2014. There were a lot more questions about them as a unit going into the season than there were coming out. Could well be the Munchak factor.
None of which changes that our ZBS leaning scheme has different requirements than their Power leaning scheme. Yes, there is overlap in the skillsets, but they are not the same. The ZBS is more speed/ agility dependent. Case in point was Greco dropping over 20 lb from his 2013 game weight to get quicker.
Can't? No... I can, but not going to invest 4 hours per game as I do for the Browns. So not surprisingly I haven't evaluated the Steelers at all.
My impression was that the Steeler O-line surprised to the upside in 2014. There were a lot more questions about them as a unit going into the season than there were coming out. Could well be the Munchak factor.
None of which changes that our ZBS leaning scheme has different requirements than their Power leaning scheme. Yes, there is overlap in the skillsets, but they are not the same. The ZBS is more speed/ agility dependent. Case in point was Greco dropping over 20 lb from his 2013 game weight to get quicker.
The steelers actually run a lot of zone blocking under munchak.
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
Scheme should'nt matter all that much.. you can play the position.. or you simply cant.
They are asked to excel at different things in different schemes. Either way pff in October of last year ranked the Browns 1st and the Steelers 4th. Are you really going to challenge the guy that dissects offensive line play on your message board?
They are asked to excel at different things in different schemes. Either way pff in October of last year ranked the Browns 1st and the Steelers 4th. Are you really going to challenge the guy that dissects offensive line play on your message board?
I will challenge anyone that I think is giving me the runaround.....yes. You certainly know that about me.
A missed block is a missed block in any scheme. A made block is a made block.
Do you think it is just "scheme" that allows a JJ Watt to be so good at what he does?
Do you think Alex Mack could not perform...and be evaluated ...in the Steelers scheme and that Maurkice Pouncey could'n't perform...and be evaluated in the Browns scheme?
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Are you saying you can't do the same for the Steelers because their blocking scheme varies from that used by the Browns?
Can't? No... I can, but not going to invest 4 hours per game as I do for the Browns. So not surprisingly I haven't evaluated the Steelers at all.
My impression was that the Steeler O-line surprised to the upside in 2014. There were a lot more questions about them as a unit going into the season than there were coming out. Could well be the Munchak factor.
None of which changes that our ZBS leaning scheme has different requirements than their Power leaning scheme. Yes, there is overlap in the skillsets, but they are not the same. The ZBS is more speed/ agility dependent. Case in point was Greco dropping over 20 lb from his 2013 game weight to get quicker.
Can't? No... I can, but not going to invest 4 hours per game as I do for the Browns. So not surprisingly I haven't evaluated the Steelers at all.
OK, I can understand that. I wasn't asking for that. Just general impressions. Yes, I would expect to see the results of something "pregraded" like Mudlfly's PFF rankings.
My impression was that the Steeler O-line surprised to the upside in 2014. There were a lot more questions about them as a unit going into the season than there were coming out. Could well be the Munchak factor.
None of which changes that our ZBS leaning scheme has different requirements than their Power leaning scheme. Yes, there is overlap in the skillsets, but they are not the same. The ZBS is more speed/ agility dependent. Case in point was Greco dropping over 20 lb from his 2013 game weight to get quicker.
Sure, sure. But the question remains "how well did each player perform" within the given scheme that a team utilizes.
Again, no, not asking you to do that. Its not that big of a deal. I just thought that there may be some central grading system that looks at it. NFL.com, PFF, whatever.
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Can't? No... I can, but not going to invest 4 hours per game as I do for the Browns. So not surprisingly I haven't evaluated the Steelers at all.
My impression was that the Steeler O-line surprised to the upside in 2014. There were a lot more questions about them as a unit going into the season than there were coming out. Could well be the Munchak factor.
None of which changes that our ZBS leaning scheme has different requirements than their Power leaning scheme. Yes, there is overlap in the skillsets, but they are not the same. The ZBS is more speed/ agility dependent. Case in point was Greco dropping over 20 lb from his 2013 game weight to get quicker.
The steelers actually run a lot of zone blocking under munchak.
The steelers actually run a lot of zone blocking under munchak.
No doubt... I've seen examples of you running it in highlights. As I said there are few pure schemes anymore. But my impression was that the Steelers did not emphasize the ZBS to the extent that we did and were not as proficient as we were running it. Shades of the chicken and egg debate...
And FYI... we deemphasized the ZBS in the middle third of the season. The period after Mack went down and before McDonald/ Seymore developed late.
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Can't? No... I can, but not going to invest 4 hours per game as I do for the Browns. So not surprisingly I haven't evaluated the Steelers at all.
OK, I can understand that. I wasn't asking for that. Just general impressions. Yes, I would expect to see the results of something "pregraded" like Mudlfly's PFF rankings.
My impression was that the Steeler O-line surprised to the upside in 2014. There were a lot more questions about them as a unit going into the season than there were coming out. Could well be the Munchak factor.
None of which changes that our ZBS leaning scheme has different requirements than their Power leaning scheme. Yes, there is overlap in the skillsets, but they are not the same. The ZBS is more speed/ agility dependent. Case in point was Greco dropping over 20 lb from his 2013 game weight to get quicker.
Sure, sure. But the question remains "how well did each player perform" within the given scheme that a team utilizes.
Again, no, not asking you to do that. Its not that big of a deal. I just thought that there may be some central grading system that looks at it. NFL.com, PFF, whatever.
Can't? No... I can, but not going to invest 4 hours per game as I do for the Browns. So not surprisingly I haven't evaluated the Steelers at all.
OK, I can understand that. I wasn't asking for that. Just general impressions. Yes, I would expect to see the results of something "pregraded" like Mudlfly's PFF rankings.
My impression was that the Steeler O-line surprised to the upside in 2014. There were a lot more questions about them as a unit going into the season than there were coming out. Could well be the Munchak factor.
None of which changes that our ZBS leaning scheme has different requirements than their Power leaning scheme. Yes, there is overlap in the skillsets, but they are not the same. The ZBS is more speed/ agility dependent. Case in point was Greco dropping over 20 lb from his 2013 game weight to get quicker.
Sure, sure. But the question remains "how well did each player perform" within the given scheme that a team utilizes.
Again, no, not asking you to do that. Its not that big of a deal. I just thought that there may be some central grading system that looks at it. NFL.com, PFF, whatever.
As of last October Browns 1st, Steelers 4th according to PFF. I already posted the same above.
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
Scheme should'nt matter all that much.. you can play the position.. or you simply cant.
They are asked to excel at different things in different schemes. Either way pff in October of last year ranked the Browns 1st and the Steelers 4th. Are you really going to challenge the guy that dissects offensive line play on your message board?
Are you really going to challenge the guy that dissects offensive line play on your message board?
Thanks, but nothing sacred about my O-line grades... Just a guy with an interest, a little O-line experience in the distant past and a lot of time to kill.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Thanks, but nothing sacred about my O-line grades... Just a guy with an interest, a little O-line experience in the distant past and a lot of time to kill.
No problem and I know its just your opinion. My point was nickers doesn't evaluate anything. Yet he wanted to question your stance with nothing more than a "nah uh"
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Thanks, but nothing sacred about my O-line grades... Just a guy with an interest, a little O-line experience in the distant past and a lot of time to kill.
No problem and I know its just your opinion. My point was nickers doesn't evaluate anything. Yet he wanted to question your stance with nothing more than a "nah uh"
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Can't? No... I can, but not going to invest 4 hours per game as I do for the Browns. So not surprisingly I haven't evaluated the Steelers at all.
OK, I can understand that. I wasn't asking for that. Just general impressions. Yes, I would expect to see the results of something "pregraded" like Mudlfly's PFF rankings.
My impression was that the Steeler O-line surprised to the upside in 2014. There were a lot more questions about them as a unit going into the season than there were coming out. Could well be the Munchak factor.
None of which changes that our ZBS leaning scheme has different requirements than their Power leaning scheme. Yes, there is overlap in the skillsets, but they are not the same. The ZBS is more speed/ agility dependent. Case in point was Greco dropping over 20 lb from his 2013 game weight to get quicker.
Sure, sure. But the question remains "how well did each player perform" within the given scheme that a team utilizes.
Again, no, not asking you to do that. Its not that big of a deal. I just thought that there may be some central grading system that looks at it. NFL.com, PFF, whatever.
As of last October Browns 1st, Steelers 4th according to PFF. I already posted the same above.
As of last October Browns 1st, Steelers 4th according to PFF. I already posted the same above.
Well, I think that need to be fleshed out a little more. How did each player grade out.
Or, maybe that is what Mudfly pointed out earlier.
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Id say it's not even close.....we got em at 4 outta 5 positions(slam dunk) and there's even an argument that Schwartz is better than Gilbert.....but Id call that one a wash.....and you know I love scores and rankings, so just for the sake of it, here are their NFL ranks for 2014...)
Joe Thomas(#3) beats Beachum(#5),,,,
Bitonio(#2) crushes Foster(#18)......
Mack(prjcts to #2) beats Pouncy(#6)
Greco(#6) beats DeCastro(#11)...
Schwartz(#12) falls to Gilbert(#10) (but its close)
Id say it's not even close.....we got em at 4 outta 5 positions(slam dunk) and there's even an argument that Schwartz is better than Gilbert.....but Id call that one a wash.....and you know I love scores and rankings, so just for the sake of it, here are their NFL ranks for 2014...)
Joe Thomas(#3) beats Beachum(#5),,,,
Bitonio(#2) crushes Foster(#18)......
Mack(prjcts to #2) beats Pouncy(#6)
Greco(#6) beats DeCastro(#11)...
Schwartz(#12) falls to Gilbert(#10) (but its close)
So....the Browns O Line grades out better in 4 of the 5 positions. (That is about what I thought it would be by just my general impressions....I just had a couple of guys switched....)
By the way Mud.....is it possible for you to list how all the AFCN O Lines rank on this thing?
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Id say it's not even close.....we got em at 4 outta 5 positions(slam dunk) and there's even an argument that Schwartz is better than Gilbert.....but Id call that one a wash.....and you know I love scores and rankings, so just for the sake of it, here are their NFL ranks for 2014...)
Joe Thomas(#3) beats Beachum(#5),,,,
Bitonio(#2) crushes Foster(#18)......
Mack(prjcts to #2) beats Pouncy(#6)
Greco(#6) beats DeCastro(#11)...
Schwartz(#12) falls to Gilbert(#10) (but its close)
So....the Browns O Line grades out better in 4 of the 5 positions. (That is about what I thought it would be by just my general impressions....I just had a couple of guys switched....)
By the way Mud.....is it possible for you to list how all the AFCN O Lines rank on this thing?
So....the Browns O Line grades out better in 4 of the 5 positions. (That is about what I thought it would be by just my general impressions....I just had a couple of guys switched....)
By the way Mud.....is it possible for you to list how all the AFCN O Lines rank on this thing?
Lol, do your own research.
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month)
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