Baker Mayfield
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for the browns to take the next step. The next step being rising to the top of the division, or at least alongside the top of the division with the steelers and Ravens. Right now the steelers and the ravens rightfully consider themselves rivals to each other and measure their success against each other. We are not part of that equation right now, and the steelers do not consider us relevant or a rival to them. The question is can they get there, and how do they get to that point.
So let's start with one key point- This is a passing league, has been for a long time, and the only way a team is going to get to the top of the mountain is with an uber efficient and successful passing game and/or an atypical running game(like Baltimore has founded on the qb running) which complements a successful passing attack(like Baltimore has). A team isn't going to have traditional running back handoffs as a foundation of offensive success in 2020, so let's throw that nonsense out right now.
So given that the browns have to throw the ball a bunch successfully to be successful against upper end competition, how do they get there? The reality is baker just has to play better.....but the browns could help him by using fewer 1st and 2nd down plays to run the ball.
In a hypothetical situation where a team has the league's worst qb, marginal recievers, and the league's best traditional running game(again to remove a team like baltimore from the equation).....throwing the football on first and second down is *still* going to be more efficient than running the ball. That's just the way it is. The likely 'break even point* for when running the ball on 1st and 2nd down equals the efficiency of the passing game would likely be 7.4-7.5 yards per carry when you consider the downsides of running(more holding penalties, fewer chunk plays leading directly to points) against the positives(eliminating the interception risk). Obviously no team is going to average 7 and a half yards per carry, but the other side of this is the browns don't have the league's worst qbs and certainly don't have marginal recievers.
So if the browns are going to take the next step, they are going to do so throwing the football a lot better than they are doing now.
One way to increase the odds of doing that is fewer runs on 1st and 2nd down.....time and time again when baker struggles and the browns get thumped, when you go back and look at the game log on offense we see handoffs to the running backs which set up 2nd and 3rd and log. Converting more of those less efficient runs into first and second down play action passing is going to put Baker in a better situation....
and remember, running the football successfully *DOES NOT* set up play action pass. This has been disproven in that we now know that play action passing is successful completely independently of running the football.
and remember, running the football successfully *DOES NOT* set up play action pass. This has been disproven in that we now know that play action passing is successful completely independently of running the football.
No, this has NOT been disproven. It is game-dependent theory. I've even shown depth of linebacker drop comparing side-by sides of the Niners and your precious Chiefs in last years Superbowl.
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for the browns to take the next step. The next step being rising to the top of the division, or at least alongside the top of the division with the steelers and Ravens. Right now the steelers and the ravens rightfully consider themselves rivals to each other and measure their success against each other. We are not part of that equation right now, and the steelers do not consider us relevant or a rival to them. The question is can they get there, and how do they get to that point.
So let's start with one key point- This is a passing league, has been for a long time, and the only way a team is going to get to the top of the mountain is with an uber efficient and successful passing game and/or an atypical running game(like Baltimore has founded on the qb running) which complements a successful passing attack(like Baltimore has). A team isn't going to have traditional running back handoffs as a foundation of offensive success in 2020, so let's throw that nonsense out right now.
So given that the browns have to throw the ball a bunch successfully to be successful against upper end competition, how do they get there? The reality is baker just has to play better.....but the browns could help him by using fewer 1st and 2nd down plays to run the ball.
In a hypothetical situation where a team has the league's worst qb, marginal recievers, and the league's best traditional running game(again to remove a team like baltimore from the equation).....throwing the football on first and second down is *still* going to be more efficient than running the ball. That's just the way it is. The likely 'break even point* for when running the ball on 1st and 2nd down equals the efficiency of the passing game would likely be 7.4-7.5 yards per carry when you consider the downsides of running(more holding penalties, fewer chunk plays leading directly to points) against the positives(eliminating the interception risk). Obviously no team is going to average 7 and a half yards per carry, but the other side of this is the browns don't have the league's worst qbs and certainly don't have marginal recievers.
So if the browns are going to take the next step, they are going to do so throwing the football a lot better than they are doing now.
One way to increase the odds of doing that is fewer runs on 1st and 2nd down.....time and time again when baker struggles and the browns get thumped, when you go back and look at the game log on offense we see handoffs to the running backs which set up 2nd and 3rd and log. Converting more of those less efficient runs into first and second down play action passing is going to put Baker in a better situation....
and remember, running the football successfully *DOES NOT* set up play action pass. This has been disproven in that we now know that play action passing is successful completely independently of running the football.
for the browns to take the next step. The next step being rising to the top of the division, or at least alongside the top of the division with the steelers and Ravens. Right now the steelers and the ravens rightfully consider themselves rivals to each other and measure their success against each other. We are not part of that equation right now, and the steelers do not consider us relevant or a rival to them. The question is can they get there, and how do they get to that point.
So let's start with one key point- This is a passing league, has been for a long time, and the only way a team is going to get to the top of the mountain is with an uber efficient and successful passing game and/or an atypical running game(like Baltimore has founded on the qb running) which complements a successful passing attack(like Baltimore has). A team isn't going to have traditional running back handoffs as a foundation of offensive success in 2020, so let's throw that nonsense out right now.
So given that the browns have to throw the ball a bunch successfully to be successful against upper end competition, how do they get there? The reality is baker just has to play better.....but the browns could help him by using fewer 1st and 2nd down plays to run the ball.
In a hypothetical situation where a team has the league's worst qb, marginal recievers, and the league's best traditional running game(again to remove a team like baltimore from the equation).....throwing the football on first and second down is *still* going to be more efficient than running the ball. That's just the way it is. The likely 'break even point* for when running the ball on 1st and 2nd down equals the efficiency of the passing game would likely be 7.4-7.5 yards per carry when you consider the downsides of running(more holding penalties, fewer chunk plays leading directly to points) against the positives(eliminating the interception risk). Obviously no team is going to average 7 and a half yards per carry, but the other side of this is the browns don't have the league's worst qbs and certainly don't have marginal recievers.
So if the browns are going to take the next step, they are going to do so throwing the football a lot better than they are doing now.
One way to increase the odds of doing that is fewer runs on 1st and 2nd down.....time and time again when baker struggles and the browns get thumped, when you go back and look at the game log on offense we see handoffs to the running backs which set up 2nd and 3rd and log. Converting more of those less efficient runs into first and second down play action passing is going to put Baker in a better situation....
and remember, running the football successfully *DOES NOT* set up play action pass. This has been disproven in that we now know that play action passing is successful completely independently of running the football.
its simple, the browns are not as physical a team as the ravens and steelers....its been that way since the return....too much soft play....we now have the weapons....for the most part....i am not sold on mayfield so far.....but shit, we need more physicality.....we got pushed around all over the field yesterday...it was pathetic....and you are correct...this is still no rivalry ....its baltimore and the steelers...its been the rivalry for 20 some yrs now....
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Vag the Magnanimous?
I'll take it... as you have a right to a different attytude...
Agree with your props to Baker for playing hurt, but my concerns go deeper. Somewhere along the line he's lost his edge... his fire... the chip on his shoulder.
I wrote this minutes ago in another thread in reply to OBJ leading a little sideline gathering...
This isn't going to be popular but ill say it... The antics Baker has shown previously - the flag plant, the slashing, the shit talk then silence into near cowering. That's shit fake tough guys do.
Some will read this and be mad, real ones will read it and go "damn, you're right"
It's easy to be loud when things are right or at minimum even. When they aren't? That's when bravado should give way to grit. Baker might not have the latter.
This isn't going to be popular but ill say it... The antics Baker has shown previously - the flag plant, the slashing, the shit talk then silence into near cowering. That's shit fake tough guys do.
Some will read this and be mad, real ones will read it and go "damn, you're right"
It's easy to be loud when things are right or at minimum even. When they aren't? That's when bravado should give way to grit. Baker might not have the latter.
You beat me to this.
It isn't that Baker might lose games to the Pittsburghs of the world - its the fact that most times he doesn't even look like he should be on the field with them.
I'm seriously asking this to everyone - do you think Pittsburgh or Baltimore is at all scared to play Baker Mayfield? Do you think defensive players on either teams lose one minute of sleep the week leading up to playing against Baker Mayfield? I do not. Baker Mayfield, with OBJ and Jarvis and Hooper and a good OLine and Chubb and Hunt and I still do not think Mayfield scares any good teams one iota. This is the #1 overall pick who is in his third season.
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This isn't going to be popular but ill say it... The antics Baker has shown previously - the flag plant, the slashing, the shit talk then silence into near cowering. That's shit fake tough guys do.
Some will read this and be mad, real ones will read it and go "damn, you're right"
It's easy to be loud when things are right or at minimum even. When they aren't? That's when bravado should give way to grit. Baker might not have the latter.
You beat me to this.
It isn't that Baker might lose games to the Pittsburghs of the world - its the fact that most times he doesn't even look like he should be on the field with them.
I'm seriously asking this to everyone - do you think Pittsburgh or Baltimore is at all scared to play Baker Mayfield? Do you think defensive players on either teams lose one minute of sleep the week leading up to playing against Baker Mayfield? I do not. Baker Mayfield, with OBJ and Jarvis and Hooper and a good OLine and Chubb and Hunt and I still do not think Mayfield scares any good teams one iota. This is the #1 overall pick who is in his third season.
It isn't that Baker might lose games to the Pittsburghs of the world - its the fact that most times he doesn't even look like he should be on the field with them.
I'm seriously asking this to everyone - do you think Pittsburgh or Baltimore is at all scared to play Baker Mayfield?
Well Baker and the Browns scored 40pts in a win in Baltimore last year ?
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We have the worst QB in the division. This shouldn't be.
Burrows is better than Baker already?
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Burrows is better than Baker already?
Absolutely.
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Burrows is better than Baker already?
Absolutely.
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Burrows is better than Baker already?
Absolutely.
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I watched the game as well. How anyone can think Josh Allen is a better QB than Mayfield is beyond me.
Mahomes probably is though ?
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It isn't that Baker might lose games to the Pittsburghs of the world - its the fact that most times he doesn't even look like he should be on the field with them.
I'm seriously asking this to everyone - do you think Pittsburgh or Baltimore is at all scared to play Baker Mayfield?
Well Baker and the Browns scored 40pts in a win in Baltimore last year ?
Well Baker and the Browns scored 40pts in a win in Baltimore last year ?
That game is looking more and more like an aberration.
But I will give that one to you. Mayfield threw for 342 yards on 20/30 passing, 1 touchdown and 1 interception.
I still contend that neither the Steelers or Ravens fear Mayfield in the least.
What about Mayfield would make them fear him? His mediocre arm? His so-so accuracy? His ability to read a defense? His athletic prowess?
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Well Baker and the Browns scored 40pts in a win in Baltimore last year ?
That game is looking more and more like an aberration.
But I will give that one to you. Mayfield threw for 342 yards on 20/30 passing, 1 touchdown and 1 interception.
I still contend that neither the Steelers or Ravens fear Mayfield in the least.
What about Mayfield would make them fear him? His mediocre arm? His so-so accuracy? His ability to read a defense? His athletic prowess?
What about Mayfield would make them fear him?
The unfortunate thing is that his decision-making and short-to-mid accuracy appeared to be strengths through the draft process. Arm strength.. not so much.
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Well Baker and the Browns scored 40pts in a win in Baltimore last year ?
That game is looking more and more like an aberration.
But I will give that one to you. Mayfield threw for 342 yards on 20/30 passing, 1 touchdown and 1 interception.
I still contend that neither the Steelers or Ravens fear Mayfield in the least.
What about Mayfield would make them fear him? His mediocre arm? His so-so accuracy? His ability to read a defense? His athletic prowess?
That game is looking more and more like an aberration.
But I will give that one to you. Mayfield threw for 342 yards on 20/30 passing, 1 touchdown and 1 interception.
I still contend that neither the Steelers or Ravens fear Mayfield in the least.
What about Mayfield would make them fear him? His mediocre arm? His so-so accuracy? His ability to read a defense? His athletic prowess?
I certainly think he has a good enough arm, accuracy and athletic ability to make other teams worry. He can and he has been very good, he isn't perfect and he has also struggled at times.
But I think we would be crazy to give up on him, we'd end up in "veteran" QB rotation AGAIN.
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Well Baker and the Browns scored 40pts in a win in Baltimore last year ?
That game is looking more and more like an aberration.
But I will give that one to you. Mayfield threw for 342 yards on 20/30 passing, 1 touchdown and 1 interception.
I still contend that neither the Steelers or Ravens fear Mayfield in the least.
What about Mayfield would make them fear him? His mediocre arm? His so-so accuracy? His ability to read a defense? His athletic prowess?
That game is looking more and more like an aberration.
But I will give that one to you. Mayfield threw for 342 yards on 20/30 passing, 1 touchdown and 1 interception.
I still contend that neither the Steelers or Ravens fear Mayfield in the least.
What about Mayfield would make them fear him? His mediocre arm? His so-so accuracy? His ability to read a defense? His athletic prowess?
Ya... but there might be three - four whole QB’s in the league that scare NFL defenses.... and Lamar ain’t doing it with his arm
And I don’t think Baker’s arm strength is really an issue.... when he is hitting passes 20-25 yards down field and you can hear it hit the WR’s hands on TV..
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I'd swap Mayfield for Burrows in a heartbeat and take my chances.
I'd rather see a QB take his bumps and bruises his rookie year with a talentless team than be a one year wonder like Mayfield.
Burrows is the typical AFCN North QB. Big at 6'4" 230. Cincy got him, Balt has Lamar, Pitt has Ben and and we got the midget.
Todays QB must be able to pass from the pocket. Mayfield is horrible at it.
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That game is looking more and more like an aberration.
But I will give that one to you. Mayfield threw for 342 yards on 20/30 passing, 1 touchdown and 1 interception.
I still contend that neither the Steelers or Ravens fear Mayfield in the least.
What about Mayfield would make them fear him? His mediocre arm? His so-so accuracy? His ability to read a defense? His athletic prowess?
I certainly think he has a good enough arm, accuracy and athletic ability to make other teams worry. He can and he has been very good, he isn't perfect and he has also struggled at times.
But I think we would be crazy to give up on him, we'd end up in "veteran" QB rotation AGAIN.
I certainly think he has a good enough arm, accuracy and athletic ability to make other teams worry. He can and he has been very good, he isn't perfect and he has also struggled at times.
But I think we would be crazy to give up on him, we'd end up in "veteran" QB rotation AGAIN.
I don't think the Browns should give up on him, because there isn't a better alternative at the present time.
But I do not see anything that makes me think he's going to be anything beyond an Andy Dalton caliber starting QB. I think that's about his ceiling. (Mind you, Andy Dalton put up a few pretty darn good seasons, but he's also someone who had a limited upside)
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That game is looking more and more like an aberration.
But I will give that one to you. Mayfield threw for 342 yards on 20/30 passing, 1 touchdown and 1 interception.
I still contend that neither the Steelers or Ravens fear Mayfield in the least.
What about Mayfield would make them fear him? His mediocre arm? His so-so accuracy? His ability to read a defense? His athletic prowess?
Ya... but there might be three - four whole QB’s in the league that scare NFL defenses.... and Lamar ain’t doing it with his arm
And I don’t think Baker’s arm strength is really an issue.... when he is hitting passes 20-25 yards down field and you can hear it hit the WR’s hands on TV..
Ya... but there might be three - four whole QB’s in the league that scare NFL defenses.... and Lamar ain’t doing it with his arm
And I don’t think Baker’s arm strength is really an issue.... when he is hitting passes 20-25 yards down field and you can hear it hit the WR’s hands on TV..
I don't care how a QB puts fear into an opposing team.
Baker doesn't scare anyone with his arm, or his accuracy, or his ability to read defenses, or his overall athletic ability.
He peaked during his rookie season. When teams got film on him, his weaknesses have been exposed.
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I certainly think he has a good enough arm, accuracy and athletic ability to make other teams worry. He can and he has been very good, he isn't perfect and he has also struggled at times.
But I think we would be crazy to give up on him, we'd end up in "veteran" QB rotation AGAIN.
I don't think the Browns should give up on him, because there isn't a better alternative at the present time.
But I do not see anything that makes me think he's going to be anything beyond an Andy Dalton caliber starting QB. I think that's about his ceiling. (Mind you, Andy Dalton put up a few pretty darn good seasons, but he's also someone who had a limited upside)
Andy Dalton put up a few pretty darn good seasons
All of them with Jay Gruden as OC and a really good OL [whitworth / smith/ boling / zeitler and several C's]
Speaking of Jacksonville [Jay's current team] they are the first team since the 1970 merger to have 5 different players attempt a field goal in 5 consecutive games.
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I'd swap Mayfield for Burrows in a heartbeat and take my chances.
I'd rather see a QB take his bumps and bruises his rookie year with a talentless team than be a one year wonder like Mayfield.
Burrows is the typical AFCN North QB. Big at 6'4" 230. Cincy got him, Balt has Lamar, Pitt has Ben and and we got the midget.
Todays QB must be able to pass from the pocket. Mayfield is horrible at it.
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