This is what you get when your secondary players are out with injuries at various times throughout the preseason. 

This is what you get when you don't play your starting defense, especially the DBs, as a unit during preseason. 

We got a pre-season performance from players who didn't play in the preseason because the coaches are too scared of injury. Joe Woods should've recognized that and played way more man-to-man coverage until the communications issues are resolved.

I don't blame Chubb for scoring that last TD. Coach should've told him not to. I don't blame York for missing the XP. That's going to happen, especially with a rookie. This is 100% on the coaches, Stefanski, Woods, and Priefer. They didn't give the starters enough reps in the preseason, they didn't prepare the team well enough to handle fake punts and onsides kicks. They need to do better.

@hoorta said:

Any lawyers out there?  It will probably start with an injunction being filed against the NFL to go pound salt.  I'll use a dirty word in this Forum "Political"...  What I've learned in my adventures in that sphere, the defense (in this case the NFLPA) can use a process called "discovery"... You can bet the ranch the player's association will drag up all the shit that the above owners (who are supposed to be held to a higher standard) got away with essentially scot free...  I have NO doubts the NFLPA's lawyers are already working overtime at producing a mountain of paperwork that will take a judge weeks to wade through.  

It's still possible that Watson and the NFL reach an agreement before anything goes to court, what you've posted certainly gives the NFL motivation to do so. From what I heard on a podcast, the NFL's minimum was 12 games + fines and Watson's maximum was 8 games. Maybe they just split the difference and agree to 10 games + a smaller fine than what the NFL wanted.

@bob806 said:

Wow. So the commissioner doesn't want to honor the CBA he signed off on. 

Media pressure, particularly from profootballtalk.com, drove this. I think it makes Goodell look weak as hell 

Our world just keeps on getting crazier, & it's not a good thing.

Sadly, the CBA allowed for the NFL (and the NFLPA) to appeal the ruling made by the independent judge. The NFLPA tried to make it so NFL could make the initial ruling but any appeal would go to the independent judge (as it is in MLB) but they wouldn't agree to that.

@berniesuperbowl2 said:

Hopefully Watson appeals and gets it reduced another two games down to four games. 

Complete and total garbage that Watson is getting railroaded like this, but the NFL is trying to protect their image. TWO grand juries would not indict him because there is not one shred of proof of any wrong doing. People are simply using group think to reach the conclusion that "Twenty-six is too many!!!!". Then why didn't TWO grand juries think so? Especially in Texas where they have express lanes to convict people. Bull. Crap. 

But moving forward to the season, if Jacoby can get us to 3-3 then Watson will be in good shape to take over and get us to the playoffs. Here we go Brownies, here we go!!!

While I agree with you about the 'group think' issue, with all due respect, you and others are conflating the US legal system's standards with the NFL Conduct Policy standards. In a standard legal proceeding, federal and state law are the basis for making decisions. So the fact that he is criminally innocent doesn't mean he didn't violate the NFL Conduct Policy.

In the Watson case and any other suspension case, it's the NFL Conduct Policy that provides the standard in which decisions are made, and that goes above and beyond what's legal . Now that there is an independent judge making the interpretation and not the NFL, we can expect these rulings to be be more consistent and fair. 

@secondwave said:

I love that Deshaun isn't settling any of the civil cases. He's gonna fight em all and maintain his innocence. Quite frankly, the way the media is covering all of this is disgusting. Speaking as though he were guilty, and even when the second grand jury chose not to indict him. People were disappointed. This is all bizarre.

The media prays at the alter of the court of public opinion. Since public opinion assumes guilt until proven innocent, anyone who defends DW will suffer. Suffering for the media means less clicks, less views, and less money. I have not seen a single person in the media reference Buzzbee's ties to McNair or even mention any of the inconsistencies in the prosecution's cases. 

@berniesuperbowl2 said:

Matt Ryan was traded to the Colts for a 3rd rounder. The Saints signed Winston. 

That leaves possible Baker trade destinations as maybe: Seattle, Detroit, Giants, Carolina, Atlanta? 

Atlanta signing Mariotta. Probably just Carolina and Seattle at this point. I'd rather have Goff than Baker at this point, so don't see why Detroit makes that deal. 

@mddawg said:

Just what I thought. I wrote that there was some Texas oleboys shennanigans in another thread

From the link I posted, regarding the sexual act you mentioned:

Plaintiff admittedly sought to “blackmail” Mr. Watson before she filed suit. She asked him to pay her $30,000 for “indefinite silence” because her encounter would be “embarrassing” if revealed. More importantly, when Mr. Watson’s marketing manager, Bryan Burney, asked her whether she was claiming that something happened against her will, she confirmed that everything that occurred was consensual. Finally, she told Mr. Burney that she wanted a copy of the NDA that she and Mr. Watson signed because she did not want people in her industry to know she had provided oral sex to her massage client. Evidence of her concerns is contained in Mr. Burney’s affidavit and a contemporaneous tape recording of a phone conversation.

@hoorta said:

This boils down to a she said, he said argument.... And IF she got paid? That removes a lot of the well, he forced me to do it.  If you go to the OP, the DA couldn't prove anyone was forced to do anything.  Then there's also the attorney who's representing a lot of the women who IMHO is only in it to get a pile of cash for these women, and by extension himself. 

The attorney who:

1. Accepted donations to his mayorial campaign from, guess who, McNair, owner of the Texans
2. Who lives on the same street as the McNair
3. Whose wife is friends with McNair's grand daughter
4. Has a reputation as an ambulance-chaser

Why did all this surface only after he requested a trade? Angry billionaire and scummy lawyer scratch each others back to punish Watson and make scummy lawyer richer? Too many coincidences to ignore. 

Here's the submission to the court from Watson's attorney, make up your own minds, but he does make an excellent case pointing out all the inconsistencies in the prosecution's case:

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/20619132/deshaun-watson-original-answer.pdf

@laiccm said:

Thank you.

People are scared of just laying out the facts being that it may seem like you are defending Watson. The bottomline fact is that The Grand Jury can indict a ham sandwich and chose not to indict Watson on a single count...ijs

Thank @hish747, he's the one who did all the hard work. I'm just making sure some people see it.

@beare said:

Will brissit take us to the super bowl when watson molest a woman again his first season??? People like him dont change!!!!

Sounds like you should go read this: 

/topic/64063

@laiccm said:

I like we didn't have to give up a player

I like he is a true amd solid upgrade over Baker

I dont like giving up the picks

I dont like he has the problem with the cold

You?

From 1999 to 2021, the Browns spent 5 first-round picks on the chance that one might turn out to be a young franchise QB. In 2022, they spent three first round picks on someone who already is young franchise QB. 

As far as I'm concerned, we got a steal. Draft picks are over-valued because everyone assumes best-case scenarios, but fact is that at least one of those picks will be a bust.

@mjp28 said:

Being that the quarterback is the leader of team compared to let's say a defensive player or staff where does character or judgment or maybe reputation  come in  play here for a guy who was just handed a HUGE 5 year guaranteed contract a will be wearing a BROWNS uniform  ?  Or doesn't that matter at all just win baby and we'll just pretend that none of this matters at all ?

Have we and the NFL shield just overlook all of this ?  Will a 12-4 season and a deep playoff run make everyone forget about this whole salacious stuff.....and for 5 years  ?

I guess we'll all find out soon enough. 

GO BROWNS,  just win......baby !

We already know, the evidence is Ben Roethlesburger, Kareem Hunt, Ray Rice, Ray Lewis, etc etc etc

What Watson actually did may not even rise to the level of what these guys did, given that the only thing he has admitted to is consensual sexual activity with one or two of these women.

@pat-mahomo said:

Why did the Browns draw up a contract that only pays a very low number in bas salary this year so as to avoid Watson having to pay or forfiet only tiny amounts in the event of a suspension?  That doesn't happen when you think the NFL is going to come to the conclusion that Watson is not culpable in some way.

An NFL suspension doesn't equate to a legal verdict. The NFL has concerns about its bottom line, and if the NFL thinks the bottom line will be impacted negatively by declining to suspend Watson, they may suspend him to appease the court of public opinion. 

If the Browns are convinced of his innocence, but consider what I just mentioned, maybe they are protecting him from further unjustness by losing money for something he didn't do. 

@hoorta said:

John Stallworth 4th round, Hines Ward 3rd round, Antonio Brown 6th round...  Tia shows you don't know what  you're talking about in regards to NFL "open".   

Just stop...   Because a WR is drafted high is no guarantee he's going to be great. Gee, I thought we did have a stud #1 wr in OBJ, and he did squat. 

All the Browns need is for Baker to start playing like the #1 overall pick, which of late- he isn't... NFL.com had Joe at #4, Baker at #21..  There is no explaining away how limited the Browns' passing attack remains. Baker’s location is spotty, as he finished 2-of-9 for 21 yards, one score and three picks on throws over 10 yards Saturday, per Next Gen Stats. When Mayfield isn’t accurate, he’s not making up for it with any other attributes. 

The only explanation I can think of is Baker's played with his injuries long enough that his throwing mechanics are messed up, which leads to messed up confidence and an inability to perform under pressure. 

This doesn't get fixed this season, and we have to hope it gets fixed for next season because we don't have time to develop another rookie QB and I don't see a good veteran finding his way to Cleveland.

It's been good to see Duke more involved in the game plan, too. I didn't realize how much Haley sucked until Kitchens started running the offense.

@babernakle said:

I feel that’s it’s a sure thing Darnold is going to be a brown.  And I’m really happy about that.  But now with the heat being turned up with people after Barkley and Chubb or one of the other three qbs that 4 spot really gets valuable.  So if the browns get the other teams 1 and 1 next year and a 2 and 3 this year should they trade down? I say yes because of the statistics of where most great players come from but either way the browns are in a great spot but like I said I take more picks what do you fellas think

I agree that it's Darnold at #1. Here's how I think the first 4 picks will go:

1. Darnold to Browns

2. Chubb to Giants (JPP trade makes this more likely, but QB is also possible).

3. Rosen to Jets

4. Fitzpatrick to Browns as most likely, but possible trade down to a team that wants Allen or Mayfield. 

I get all the interest in Barkley, but it's not going to happen. Dorsey has never selected a running back higher than the second round. He listed the top 5 most important positions on a football team in an interview, and RB wasn't on that list. QB, DB, Edge, LT and WR were. We aren't spending the #4 pick on a position that the GM thinks is not as important when a stud (Fitzpatrick) will be available to fill one of his top-5.

@7moses7 said:

Really you people are excited about a veteran QB that completes 52% of his passes and you want to complain about Allen’s completion %

His completion percentage sucks but his winning percentage (11-6) doesn't. Granted, he got those wins on a team that was much better than the Browns, but as a backup QB, I'll take it over Kessler and Hogan.

@jiggins7919 said:

If it's the Bills, I'd cry to move back THAT far.  I think that's been our downfall in recent years.  Trade back?  Sure, fine.  But trade back into the 20's?  Ehhhhh

Apparently I missed the news that the Bills are picking at 12 now due to a trade with Cincinnati. Trading back to 12 not nearly as bad. With most recent FA moves, I really think it is QB at 1 and with Fitzpatrick, Chubb, or trade down at 4 to pick up another DB.

@jiggins7919 said:

I like this move, and it's smart and sensible.  

Now, as far as the draft goes, I have this terrible feeling that it's not going to go like ANYBODY thinks.  I have these fears that we're going to get cute and screw it all up.  Forgive me for my paranoia, but it's not paranoia if it always happens.  In fact, I'd literally bet money that we're trading at least one of our first rounders.  

And I'm already mad about it. 

We have a completely different front office now, so I wouldn't expect the #1 pick to be traded. That #4 pick is going to be nearly as valuable as the #1 pick because it is likely their will be a run on QBs, leaving just 1 top-tier QB of the 4 when pick 4 rolls around.  Possible teams that would want to pick a QB: Dolphins at 11, Redskins at 13, Cardinals at 15, Chargers at 17,  Bills at 21. If it's the Bills, they will have to give a boatload up to the Browns to move up that high.

@logicisforsquares said:

Hyde is a thumper and doesn't get tripped by ghosts. 

Ah, yep. That drove me nuts with Crowell. Good upgrade then. Wonder if they might still take an RB with 2nd or 3rd round pick.

@darren15 said:

Probably means we are trading out of 4 with The Bills for 12 and 22

Probably means we are drafting Fitzpatrick or Chubb at 4. Trading out/down is possible, too, but this team really needs to add some blue-chip talent, so I'd prefer they stay put or at least in the top 10. That said, my guess, pick 4 is going to become extremely valuable because picks 1, 2, and 3 could very well go QB. Everyone talks about 4 QBs being first-rounders (Rosen, Mayfield, Darnold, Allen). With a run on QB, that's going to leave just 1 top-tier QB left, we could have a bidding war for that #4 pick.

Isn't Carlos Hyde a very similar back to Crowell?